The Big Question
Pre-enlightenment sexist exploitation in boys'-own music publication on its commercial uppers OR major, post-enlightenment blow by alternative style icon against orthodoxy of body fascism? Discuss.
posted by Andrew Collins @ 9:42 PM
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35 Comments:
The first.
Parts of the media are so keen to be condemning size zero they have championed Beth Ditto. But really they are still laughing at her. I don't know anywhere near enough about her to know if she is in on the joke or not. But I think there is liottle chance of this being a new trend for FHM to start an annual High Street Fatties issue.
I mean no offence to fat people. I am intermittently a porker.
I have no idea - I really don't - the older I get the less I understand. That said one thing I do know is that I'd rather have an article with Beth Ditto (clothed or otherwise) than "Kaiser Chiefs Interview McCartney".
Simon James x
[And don't get me started on The Apprentice, the year Siralan supposedly quality controlled the contestants !]
The latter surely. It can't do them any favours commercially but they'll get lots of coverage in the rest of the media.
However unconventionally attractive Beth Ditto is, she's still naked on the NME. What's to celebrate about that?
All I know is that the day Q magazine published their photographs of a nude and drunk Courtney Love hanging out of a limo was the day I cancelled my subscription.
I don't care how ironic/post modern/knowing it all is, I buy music magazines for music, not for pseudo soft porn. Maybe I'm just a grumpy prude.
Sadly it's a horrible cover. By which I mean it actually looks as shitty cheap as a cover of Big Jugs, or whatever. I don't know if that was the intention, but if so then what's the point? That she's only fit for the cover of Big Jugs?
A decent Anton Corbijn-style cover could have made this the second option, but it's very much the first. And the NME just isn't the place for making serious points anymore.
During my time at the NME, we put Polly Harvey on the cover topless except she had her back to the camera. Then, in parody, we did Lesley from Silverfish in the same pose. In neither case was the woman in question clutching her own breasts. In neither case, to my knowledge, did we bribe either artist to do this in return for a cover. (Mind you, I don't think Beth Ditto needs much encouragement to display her political flesh. And nor would the NME be in much of a position to make her do anything she wanted. They need her more than she needs them right now, surely?)
I'm not sure how I feel about the image. I don't feel that Ditto is being exploited. But I do feel that it's yet another mag on the shelf with a naked lady on it. And there are quite a few of them aren't there?
Still better than the Chili Peppers getting their knobs out, surely?
I don't know her music, but if it's good then more power to her, but if not then it's pointless promotion. Isn't that how it works?
And I loved the Peej cover all those years ago. (Because it was Peej, the limited flesh on show was incidental!)
Sex sells - I thought we all knew that. I suspect that the NME and Ms Ditto (sorry The Gossip) will both be more than happy with the resulting publicity.
This may sound odd, but she's actually a lot thinner than I imagined.
However, I don't think I'll be picking up a copy of the NME this week, I even struggled to pick up a copy of Heat magazine for my girlfriend a few months ago because I was scared of the perception that the woman behind the counter would gain of me. In the end I hid it under a copy of the Radio Times, which had Sandi Toksvig ice skating with Torvill and Dean on the cover - hopefully that threw her off the scent...
I think the real point here - apart from the horror, as anon above pointed out, of the Kaiser Chiefs interviewing Paul McCartney - is not the fact that Ms Ditto is naked... but whether or not she is naked and airbrushed. Because I for one think she is airbrushed (look at the curve on her bum - sorry, but no. And where's the cellulite?).
And surely that torpedos any arguments for her nakedness as anti-body fascist statement?
Whether it's the first or second I don't know. All I can say is that it's a shame.
It's a shame that Beth Ditto has felt the need to do this cover in this way. The music that her band makes is great - the music from their last album has soundtracked many a night out over the last year or so, and their success (albeit thanks to a trailer for Skins and a Soulwax remix) is fully deserved.
She is clearly a bright woman and has a lot to say on important matters. She is ideal for the indie world. And that's before you even take into account her size. I think she deserves to be on the cover of plenty of magazines, but I think she's sold herself and her band short by doing this cover naked. It makes it less about a good band with something interesting to say, and more about a fat bird in the nip. That shouldn't be the focus for here or the NME.
And I think it's a shame that the NME has sunk so low.
I stopped buying it last year after 15 years. The last two years I regretted every purchase, as the paper got thinner and thinner, the quality of journalism and photojournalism got worse, and the type of bands they covered became generic and dull. Oasis and the Libertines still get covers despite being repectively irrelevant and long defunct. The View and Kaiser Chiefs get numerous covers. LCD Soundsystem, MIA, Long Blondes etc get nothing.
Spiritualized and Mercury Rev got the album of the year in the mid nineties - can you imagine bands like that getting recognition nowadays. No.
The Cribs will probably win this year...
Sorry this has become quite the rant hasn't it. Basically it's a misguided move from the Gossip, and a desperate and sorry move from IPC.
She's fat and proud and loving every minute of it, IMHO.
She's not the sort to do anything she doesn't want to do, but anti-size zero is all the rage so she can take her pick at the moment.
When it isn't she'll be mocked.
what horrible horrible typography.
combined with the choice of colours make it look really cheap.
dont really care about the image - although i have been known to partake of the odd fat bird whilst drunk...
message for Simon James is that you from Northampton, NSB and the RA - same age as Mr Collings?
Speaking as someone whose office used to abut(t) that of Big and Fat magazine, and others catering to gentleman's other specific sexual tastes, I agree that it looks like any other cheap jazz mag. I also think Beth's lovin' it, and hooray to her for that, but it's not going to make 16-year-olds go 'Hey, Mika's right! I DO need to get myself a big lady!'. Instead, I suspect the words big, fat and lezzer will be used, as her sexuality means they don't actually fancy her, and she can therefore be seen as something of a novelty.
Doesn't anymore remember last year when NME produced their 'cool list' and Beth Ditto was pronounced the numero uno of cool, but the editor still bottled it and pulled the proposed cover featuring Beth and Lily Allen in favour of Muse....hippocrites,Now we're to believe they're striking a blow against body fascism???? Too late NME...always too late
The cover is rather cheap and nasty looking. Couldn't they have done something more stylish or is cheap and cheerful the only way they can go now?
In ref to her bum - fat people don't always have cellulite, it depends on your genetic makeup and how fat stores itself on your body.
In essence, the media still seems to want to sell the band on the girl-singer's looks. I personally think the band is a bit average but then when Beth starts singing live she is a true star. I guess it's hard to visually represent that amazing voice though.
I did actually wonder if she had been airbrushed. I thought she was a bit bigger than that (and no offence to her obviously) but airbrushing her rather defeats the purpose on this occasion surely.
I hope Beth doesn't come to regret this.
Q. Pre-enlightenment sexist exploitation in boys'-own music publication on its commercial uppers OR major, post-enlightenment blow by alternative style icon against orthodoxy of body fascism?
A. Too many cakes.
I'll get my coat.
I do think there is an attitude now that we shouldn't offend people by saying they are too fat. People sometimes seem to think that making jokes about someone weight is the same as making jokes about their race or gender. All of this is ridiculous.
There is an epidemic of obesity in the UK. Obesity costs the NHS around £5bn a year as it creates all manner of health problems. You have a greater propensity to various illnesses, including cancer. This extra cost is paid for by the taxpayer
You should not be "proud" of being overweight, you should be ashamed.
could be worse - she could be gobbing on the floor
great point mike, well made. why is it always extremes that are being celebrated? beth ditto is overweight, in the same way that members of girl's aloud are underweight. both are poor role models for young girls.
anyway - the nme is a steaming pile of toss and this cover just hammers another nail into their coffin, which is already so full of nails you can't really see the wood anymore. i suggest you all go to -
http://www.myspace.com/nmeisshit
I recently interviewed editor Conor McNicholas for a forthcoming Radio 4 documentary about the music press (he's a decent, articulate and passionate chap, by the way), and he made a spirited defence of the NME in the 21st century. He knows it's not a shadow of its former self in terms of its public service but works within the parameters of its new function as a brightly-coloured, glossy magazine (not paper) which acts as a souvenir, or flyer, for various other aspects of the NME brand, such as its radio station, TV show, gigs, club nights, website etc. When I first read it in the late 70s and early 80s it truly was a bible, even though it had a lot of competition, which was always healthy. I read every word of it, and boy were there a lot of words in those days! As Paul Morley said (for the same documentary), he and his contemporaries provided a narrative - in other words, contextualised pop music, and in most cases, described it. Now, who needs it? You can listen to any record you like, right now, on the Internet. You don't need it to find out news or tour dates, like you used to - it's merely a set of posters for your wall, glued together with a few words. I find it ironic that the writers get their pictures in the paper when there is so little to actually read any more. Still, it's preferable to the Popworld magazine.
In short, we who remember it when it was great, shouldn't expect NME today to compare. I buy it for old times' sake, which is mad, I know.
Stopped buying Q a long time ago.
The thing that strikes me is that it's all so calculated. Calculated to shock, outrage, whatever. You can imagine that much this has been argued through all of the band's PR hangers-on and IPC's marketing droids.
It all has the rather desperate stinky air of someone trying just that little bit too hard to be noticed (on both fronts).
I also happen to think The Gossip are a rather dull and overrated band, but that's a different thing I suppose.
And yes, bloody awful typeface. It's like, hey, punk rock and everything!
Oh - that reminds me: have you heard about this "new music that's sweeping the nation - called 'indie'"? A teenager on Big Brother mentioned it last night and I, for one, am intrigued!
If it looks airbrushed then, judging by 'tabloid exposure', 'size zero' and 'kiss my ass', I guess it's meant to be a parody/mocking of the tabloids etc (plus proud display of refusal to be oppressed); but without reading the interview it's hard to say, or, even less, to see the point. Confused and confusing really. But, in a weird way it might give a small confidence boost to a small part of the small, female part of the NME readership, (not that I think all overweight young women lack confidence). There's one who doesn't.
I stopped buying NME around 2000 when it started saying it didn't want older people to read it anymore. Not the smartest marketing move. It kind of became Melody Maker when MM closed, didn't it? That seemed to be the strategy.
One good thing about the NME was that it did appeal to a wide age range of readers. It didn't appear to be written for a specific age group other than adults. It just seems to be targetting (and patronising) a very narrow young age group now. I don't know whether the changes were necessary for it to survive, but I'm pretty sure that I'd still be buying it if it hadn't changed.
One other thing on Beth Ditto. You said the NME needed her more than she needs it, but The Gossip are still hardly established. I don't know how bad things are for the NME but it seems to me that she's still at the stage where she needs all the coverage she can get (no pun intended). That makes this cover look more like a desperate publicity stunt than it would have done from a more established artist. And sadly it's just such a shit cover...
Re: Earlier posts in this thread. I'm with Jonathan Ross in saying that the likes of FHM & LOADED & HEAT & even Q (with the naked, drunken Courtney Love - I remember that edition well and haven't bought many since) and now it seems the latest NME = porn for cowards. i.e. those who don't have the guts to look the newsagent in the eye and buy a copy of Razzle.
Fair point you make, Dirty. I used to be too embarrassed to look the newsagent in the eye and buy GQ when I used to write for it! It's one of the reasons I stopped. I fought the PC Wars in the 80s. I can't go back now.
Andrew
I too haven't read NME much for about 10 years - the odd occasion when I've bought lately has been a disappointment. I started buying it when I was 13 in 1973 & read it cover to cover, even the long articles on bands I hated (Yes, Pink Floyd etc) because the words were a joy. I stored my copies of the New Musical Express under my bed and re-read them, often.
Great cartoons, Gasbag etc etc. When I was 13 I liked pop and Tamla and the Carpenters (surprisingly little-covered in the NME !)but I felt I was getting a musical education reading about music I might not know about but might get to like when I was 15 or so.
The often great NME covers of old -The Jam, Clash, Stone Roses? Where are they now. The Beth Ditto one is awful. Where is the wit and good writing ? My former Christmas Day treat of reading the big NME special with a Terry's Chocolate Orange has long gone.
Q has long gone off the boil, too, but I bought "The Word" for the first time for a long train journey last week & enjoyed it.
Maria
Are pictures airbrushed in the Photoshop age? I think she has been healing-brushed and clone stamped.
I totally agree with Mike. I just can't see her as a role model.
I know it's a horrible phrase but I really do think it is political correctness gone mad.
I am 15 and I really enjoy the NME but I know what everyone else is saying about it not being as good as in the past. It probably isn't. But I think they feel they need to move with the times to stay relevant. It's sad in a way but I still think the NME does what it should.
I dont think she's airbrushed either, partly because I recognise her shape and it's similar to mine - I've been complemented with an 8/10 arse and I've not been under 14 stone since about the age of 15.
As for fat people costing the NHS millions, she's hardly obese and probably quite healthy. There is a massive bit of flesh between size zero and obese and sadly to me it still points out that there is no inbetween in media land.
She's got a stunning voice and stage presence. I've never had that much problem getting (intelligent, good looking, wealthy)blokes and I doubt she does either. Once again the media and reality are still many many miles apart.
It made me smile :)
Punk should be any body shape that doesn't conform to the norm, fat or skinny, short or tall. It never was just about the music. It's such a shame that men can be themselves whatever they look like in music but for women it gets so much more complicated. If a female singer manages to keep her body the way she's happy, I like her all the more.
I have no problem with the image, although it wouldn't look out of place on the cover of Bizarre rather than the NME, which incidently used to be hot copy in my school days in the mid eighties. We were sad enough as a group to procure penfriends of similar tastes through its venerable classified section, one of whom I'm still in touch with today.
However, NME = Indie Kerrang! these days (and that's a little harsh on Kerrang! despite their Ville poster fixtation).
Ask for Q....what a pile of list orientated posh boy drivel.
Bck to Ms Ditto. She's happy with it. She agreed to it. We don't have to buy it.
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