Al-right!
Seven Ages Of Rock: Stadium Rock, cough, 1965-1993
Well. For those who think I have a "problem" with this series, which I do, but not with the content, the fifth episode, about Stadium Rock, was alright. Bit dull, watching a sea of people change into a different sea of people for an hour, but this was truly a re-slicing of the cake that I had not seen before. Of course, Stadium Rock didn't end in 1993, but you can almost see their logic of saying that when U2 reinvented it, it was never the same again. (Even though it was.) As for starting in 1965 - which is what it says on the website - this would presumably mean the Beatles at Che Stadium (as I always used to think it was called), which wasn't shown, and was only mentioned in passing later on. But hey, I'm grateful to have seen this one. It spoke of changing times in an astute and fairly comprehensive manner. I'll let one of you say, What about Simple Minds?
I have a feeling that I will never like Bruce Springsteen. Nothing I ever see about him changes my mind.
posted by Andrew Collins @ 8:58 AM
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Leaving aside the usual (justifiable) quibbles about the arbitrary timeperiods the series assigns to the seven "styles", and the fact that they aren't even styles, really, much as they're not "ages" either. Leaving aside all that, it was as informative a definition of "stadium rock" as I've seen. And very enjoyable, apart from stadium rock not being my cup of tea. In fact the program clarified *why* I'm bored by these bands: everything's done in big, broad brush-strokes, which is OK in small doses, but I prefer my pop and rock a bit quirkier and small-scale than that. More yer school chess club than yer Nuremberg rallies.
If you don't like Bruce Springsteen then I am afraid there is no hope for your cold, black soul.
What does it say about your soul if you like Nebraska but hate everything else he's ever done?
Dancing in the Dark is brilliant when I'm drunk.
OK, I'll bite: What about Simple Minds?
I'm with you, Andrew.
Bruce Springsteen's music means a lot to many people, I'm happy with that, but not with the way his fans can't accept that he doesn't appeal to everyone.
My antipathy towards him stems from his desire to be perceived as an 'ordinary guy'. I don't want my musicians to be dull and everyday, I want Ziggy Stardust, Bauhaus, theatre, artistry, otherness.
Oh and the commentary said he was good looking which is just wrong. Bit dull this week, I thought.
I was never Bruce fan, however when I went to seem him - albeit reluctantly - in 1985 on the Born In The USA tour, I thought he was great. Better live than on record.
I have to say I'm still not a massive fan, but I like the odd song. He's a bit worthy.
Perhaps I'd understand Springsteen if I was American born in 1955. I've liked never liked his music, all the overblown piano-driven stuff that goes on for hours without going anywhere really gets on my pip.
Exactly - what about Simple Minds? And Depeche Mode? And all the other bands who were big enough to play stadiums but weren't mentioned! (I'll shut up now.)
I thought this episode, like all the others, was awesome. Just great, good-time nostalgia and a chance to see some cracking footage and listen to some top songs.
And The Boss rocks - I love the way he can be a pop-rock icon and a stylish, independent troubadour at the same time. And twenty years later he's STILL producing brilliant, relevent music. Which is more than you can say for most folk from that era (not pointing any elbows, SIMPLE MINDS)
Queen emerged as on of the few bands able to take on a stadium crowd. And I have a sort of respect for U2's video show, if not for the pretensions of the lead singer. But the rest, aargh. All i can say is that appears to lead performers into thinking that headbands are where it's at. The point about economics via Led Zep and The Police was well-made and far more central to stadium rock (and all its derivatives in aircraft hanger-sized venues) than creativity and all the rest of the delusions of rock musicians. Simple: you can make shed loads of cash out of performing for a couple of hours. The Stones and Madonna etc are simply pushing that realisation even further now with their laughable ticket prices. Incredible how audiences clling to the fantasy about the motives and incentives of performers. Like it's for 'art' or something...
I like Bruce Springsteen when I think he's pissing on the flag on the cover of Born In The USA and I hate him when I think he's cracking one off. There's no middle way.
I'm not a big Springsteen fan, but sometimes after a bad day at work I'll come home, put "Born To Run" loud on the stereo, and punch the air in defiance, in the process puncturing my IKEA lampshade and getting showered with dust.
Is it just me or are several of the 'other Springsteens' (Tom Petty, Warren Zevon etc.) just simply much better? No particular problem with Springsteen but his music is plodding and consistently fails to excite or entertain. A distinctly minor player in the scheme of things.
Why not take a trip to West Byfleet and visit the legendary Carpet and Curtain cleaners, Spruce Springclean. Actually, I believe there is a window cleaner in Surrey going by the same name.
I blame David Hepworth's Whistle Test documentary in 1985 for getting me into Springsteen. I still have it on VHS.
I hate Queen- they're totally cheapo and appeal only to the masses. I hate The Police, too. They're cheapo too, and only skanky idiots like them. And U2. Pretentious, pretentious, pretentious. And Springsteen. Who else? I hated all of the bands, and couldn't tell apart the 'empty bombast' of Bon Jovi from the empty bombast of any of the others.
It doesn't take a genius to manipulate a huge crowd, especially a huge crowd that's just paid £30 to be manipulated by you- the fear of being ripped off in a consumer society is probably not too far away from the fear of being taken from your house in the night in a fascist one. That's the psychology of the modern crowd.
And don't tell me, Midge Ure (was it him?) that U2 somehow transcended the horrors of the stadium by subjecting the audience to an idiots guide to the horror of Sarajevo. Rubbish, patronising Bono.
The only people that like stadium rock are the sort of people that like Britain's Got Talent. Awful, working class, cheapo cheapo morons.
I tried to detect some kind of irony in anon's comments but sadly couldn't find any. "Working class, cheapo cheapo morons" only like stadium rock? Are you for real?
Sure, you're entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Your criticisms of stadium rock, however, also appear to apply to yourself: "pretentious", "patronising". I hope you feel oh-so superior listening to whatever music it is that you like. It would probably be too cultured for my tastes, but then I am working class.
I've not been watching the series (too much Sky + too catch up with on a Saturday - eg Andrew Marr's History of Britain, any comments on that one Andrew?) but feel moved to comment about the stadium rock genre.
Surely the difficulty with stadium rockers is that most of them used to be smaller scale and close to their fans, but then got so huge they had to play enormous venues (making shedloads along the way). The issue becomes do they lose touch with reality and disappear into pomposity (ref Simple Minds c. 1987, U2 c. the album after Joshua Tree, and most other bands of this genre), do they keep their tongue firmly in cheek (arguably Queen) or do they keep going and come back down the scale (thesis running short of examples here)
I'm not a Springsteen fan, but I think there's a case for saying he got past his overblown period around 1985 and can still do stadium rock without having a stadium rocker persona (hi Bono).
Mind you, what do I know, I grew up partial to the Sisters of Mercy, The Mission, Wonder Stuff etc and saw almost all of them at Reading at one time or another, which is surely just stadium rock in a field?
Phil b, I saw Simple Minds in a field at Leeds in 1987, first ever stadium gig at the age of 15 (thank you big bro), and remember only how wonderful I found the whole experience (mind, before that I'd only sampled the delights of Spandau Ballet and er, the Toy Dolls).
I only ever saw the Mission at small venues, and don't think they would have translated very well to large stages? I've seen the White Stripes in a field of 50,000 and it was way, way to big for me - not that they'd lost touch with reality (Jack White has never had touch with reality). I saw the Raconteurs at a Carling Academy and it was just right. There is a back to small venue renaissance going on - Manic Street Preachers, Kings of Leon etc.
However, I've actually gone off seeing one of my fav bands live now - Muse - now that it is all grand theatrics and massive venues. They have the sound, yes, but its all a bit blah these days. More a chore than an actual pleasure, especially listening to the dreadful support in a vast souless barn.
Blimey. At last, someone else who doesn't like Mr Springsteen. I thought I was the only one out there.
He can't sing and he definitely can't dance!!
Perhaps Queen hating (and everything else hating)Anonymous could share with us who they actually do like...?
AnonoNick
I like bits of Bruce and other bits I'm not too keen on, but at least, unlike U2, every record he releases isn't made with the sole intention of shifting as many units as possible.
It does strike me when I listen to 6 music that every presenter seems to think that the musical universe starts in Manchester and might just stretch to London. I wonder whether there is a BBC dictat that there is a bias towards US music on Radio 2 and UK stuff is on 6 music.
***Awful, working class, cheapo cheapo morons***
GRINS HUGELY...that'll be me then. God this is turning into Comment is Free (the Guardian's very class sensitive and up itself discussion board that despises the chattering middle classes despite most of the commentators being exactly that)...
I'm just AWFUL dahling!
I like being chattering middle-class!
I think it's outrageous that you could devote that much time to Queen and not mention the pro-apartheid Sun City trip. A truly appalling band for people who don't like music. Same with U2. Happy to supply a list of stuff I do like if required.
The series has been crap basically. Decent footage interrupted by a cliched narrative promoting tenuous links between acts and genres just to suit the programme makers.
"I hate Queen- they're totally cheapo and appeal only to the masses."
Only the masses, eh? It's amazing these bands could fill stadia with such narrow appeal.
As Oldnathan said, it was slightly disingenuous of the show to talk about Queen’s success in South American without commenting on their trip to Sun City especially as the point was loosely justified by the bands ‘no politics’ stance.
It’s an old argument, but the main problem with the Seven Ages of Rock is that bands are lumped exclusively into one age or the other, so Stadium Rock failed to mention Pink Floyd (The Wall shows) or Oasis (Knebworth) as they’ve already appeared/will appear in other ages.
Other than that, I have to say that the Zoo TV tour looked absolutely fantastic – exactly the kind of overloaded, super-sized thing you want from a stadium gig.
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