This is the modern world
For all my moaning about the way lads' mags are dragging us all back into a pre-enlightenment age, at least on a different matter of sexual equality, these fuckwits have had their neanderthal views curbed. I quote the story from today's MediaGuardian.co.uk:
TalkSport rapped for homophobia
Ofcom today censured commercial radio station TalkSport after one presenter linked paedophilia with homosexuality and another, former Sun journalist Garry Bushell, called gay rights a "gospel of perversion". In the first incident, Mike Mendoza, who presents the live phone-in programme The Mike Mendoza Show, was suspended for one week: in a discussion about footballers "jumping on the bandwagon" of news stories in apparent bids to boost their image, this sinister boor cited pleas from figures including former England captain David Beckham to help find missing toddler Madeleine McCann, saying: "Now you tell me, paedophiles in general are the type of people that surely would not follow football? Not many gay people to the best of my knowledge are great football fans."
Ofcom said, "To connect homosexuality to paedophilia is highly offensive."
Bushell, on the Football First show on June 3, was plugging his eponymous Sunday night show, and joined in a discussion about an English club potentially playing in next year's European Cup final, which will be held in Moscow. Referring to the gay rights demonstrations recently held in Moscow where anti-gay protestors assaulted demonstrators including campaigner Peter Tatchell, Mr Bushell said: "I would not go to another country and try and impose my views on them, it's up to them what they do. I think there are a lot of things to put right in this country before you go around preaching the gospel of perversion."
It's OK though. Bushell said he "regretted" saying it. (Not thinking it, though, eh readers?)
I have only ever heard TalkSport in taxis. A man called Alan Brazil seemed particularly loathsome in this regard. I wouldn't impose my views on anyone, but it's clowns like these two that put me off "the type of people that follow football."*
(*Ha ha, I was pretending to generalise about football fans in tribute to Mendoza's generalisation.)
posted by Andrew Collins @ 3:49 PM
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39 Comments:
I couldn't believe this story when I saw it. I think it tells us more about the people who run TalkSport than about people who follow football though. Why are these two people still in their jobs? If you compare this to a similar football-derived incident on ITV a few years ago, where Ron Atkinson used an abusive phrase (including the "n"-word) about a black player, he was immediately and correctly dismissed from his job. And in that instance, he thought his microphone was off, so he mistakenly thought he was keeping his vile utterances to himself - these two have knowingly and deliberately passed offensive comment on air.
Then again, any organisation prepared to offer Bushell a platform for any of his views must have their judgement called into question, even before the current events.
I'm not sure there is a 'type of person who follows football' to be honest, Andrew, and holding Bushell and Mendoza up as atypical of people who do isn't right.
Equating football fans with homophobia isn't nice (although I believe you're being tongue-in-cheek). I 'm a big football fan, but I am most certainly not a homophobe.
Most of the people I know who follow football can't stand TalkSport, and its terrible presenters. They would also be appalled by the comments that have been made. (However, I'm sure there are football fans who concur with their comments, sadly.)
Bushell has spouted loathsome homophobia in the past, if memory serves me right. Didn't he write some particularly nasty things in The Sun some years ago?
I haven't heard of Mendoza, but from what I've heard he tries to be somewhat of a 'shock jock'. Even so, his words are indefensible, and he deserves more than just a one-week suspension in my view.
Why does the radio have such 'characters'* who feel it their duty to wind people up with 'shocking' comments. I'm sure there was an American radio host fired for making racist remarks recently, but his name escapes me.
It seems only radio has these particular type of people. Why is that? Has the chase for ratings driven stations to employ people just to make shocking statements?
Sorry this post is a bit sketchy, I've had to type it quick before leaving work!
(* for 'characters' read 'utter pricks')
You weaken your argument there with what almost amounts to a generalisation. But not quite. Sneaky.
I can assure you, football fans vary wildly. Football365 is the biggest football website in the UK and it spends a great deal of its time lampooning football broadcasters rather than football players as there's a wealth of material to mock, daily.
Should I say it's this sort of thing that puts me off Broadcasters? No, because that would be vaguely offensive.
Oh - I didn't notice the inverted commas around 'the type of people that follow football'. You were playing with our minds and preconceptions AC!
I was indeed being tongue in cheek with my generalisation about "the type of people who follow football" - in tribute to Mendoza's generalisation about gay people.
I've added a PS to the blog entry. I don't want football fans coming after me like the scientists did! I'm the one who reviewed every match in the World Cup on his blog!
It's probably fair to say that any like-minded person, not least the audience for this blog, think Garry Bushell is a vile pig who lives in the past.
That should be 'right-minded person'.
Glossing over my previous idiocy...it's an interesting argument. Racism has been kicked out of football as successfully in the UK as ever thought possible. Attitudes to homosexuality are, if anything, going the other way in the game.
I'm naturally thrilled that Bushell is standing for London Mayor as a candidate for the English Democrat Party, as I'm sure the city's large gay and lesbian population are, too.
What a dispiriting article (not the blog!). There was an interesting piece by Graham Spiers in the Times at the weekend talking about how there are no out footballers. Statistically, there must be lots of gay professional footballers who are still in the closet.Sad.Didn't Ashley Cole do a whole bit in his autobiography about how he was called gay by Arsenal fans and found this deeply offensive?
It's not just footballers either - the Times also ran a good piece earlier in the year on John Amaechi, a pro basketball player in the US, and the furore surrounding his coming out. It doesn't seem like matters are any further forward on the other side of the pond.
swineshead - this is somewhat tangential, but... I enjoy football365 but its full of references to "mentalists" etc which are offensive to people who suffer from mental illness. Of course Nuts and Zoo are terrible in this regard.I'm reading Paul McGrath's autobiography at the moment (highly recommended) and I think it could be said that, just any footballer who was out as gay would face appaling abuse,any footballer who was known to suffer from mental illness would be vilified and ostracised by fans and teammates.What is it about football that so much of its surrounding culture is so far behind the civilised world?
I apologise in advance for the scattergun nature of this post (these are random thoughts drifting in and out)
Garry Bushell likes The Wire, The Shield, Carnivale, NYPD Blue, Hill Street Blues, Roots, Between the Lines, Deadwood, punk from the 70s, and trained and honed variety entertainment acts like Ted Robbins and Jeff Stevenson ahead of all these wannabes pouring out of every crevace just to make a quick million. Not relevant, but just wanted to point out Garry Bushell has his good points too.
Referring to their comments:
(these are my own personal opinions even though I'm sure I've missed the point, but last time I checked I was entitled to one)
The first point (from Mendoza) is a ridiculous generalisation certainly - heterosexual men/women can't lust after young girls/boys - I'm sure they can, and despite Todd Solondz' Happiness making me feel ambivalent to Dylan Walsh's character's urges, it is a singularly sick behaviour, no question.
As far as homosexuality is concerned, the line about it being natural/unnatural is difficult for to make a determined distinction. Gay partners can't reproduce, but scientists believe there is a gene which determines your sexuality.
But then again, I suppose I'm not a right-minded person and tremendously inferior to everyone that makes comments on this blog.
ML
PS this from Bushell's blog:
'August 20. Ofcom has found me guilty of making a homophobic remark. The words I used, when taken out of context as they have been, appear completely different from my intention at the time. I have nothing against gay people and I admire Peter Tatchell for for much that he has done, not least for standing up to Mugabe. But I strongly disagree with Tatchell's on-record statement that he believes the age of consent should be lowered to eleven. As far as I’m concerned, if that is not preaching perversion then it is at the very least putting young people and children at risk of serious pyscological damage from the attentions of sexual predators, whether they be gay or hetrosexual. I wonder what the reaction would have been if on air I had called for the age of consent for hetrosexual sex to be lowered to to eleven years? I don't think it would have been Ofcom knocking on my door. More likely I'd have got offered a job at the BBC. Many gay people were also horrified by this demand. I would be happy for my views against the age of sexual consent being lowered to eleven years of age to be judged (by) the London electorate.'
I'm sure the last part didn't need to be said - I don't particularly want a political pledge in a response - shows he has an ulterior motive.
Hands up all those who were ready to have sex at the age of eleven. I wasn't. I was too busy play football, learning the tenor horn, and watching Knightmare.
Sounds like Bushell is trying to cover his arse, by pretending that he had Tatchell's age of consent opinions in mind when making the gospel of perversion reference. I'm sure that anyone who was so-minded could find homophobic comments by Bushell in the past. And why are there so many anonymous posters here? It's weird.
Sorry, I didn't mean anonymous posters in this thread, just in general. You'd think people would put their names to their comments.
It is very worrying that in this day and age there are still idiots saying things like this.
On the subject of anonymous postings I got a very strange one on my blog over the weekend, but you really just have to laugh.
I can't remember my password and I'm too lazy to write machinelevine every single time I write a post.
You're right, though. I am an idiot. I am an idiot to think that any observation on homosexuality can be thought of as trying to be objective. Homosexuality is natural. Gay men/women can do whatever they want. I apologise.
I thought I was merely trying to emulate Louis Theroux's 'mind of a five year old' inquisitveness? 'And what happens when you do this?' etc. by asking whether is perceived as natural despite the lack of reproduction from intercourse, due to the fact that scientists consider it to be genetic.
Are there same-sex animals out there that can reproduce? I don't know, I'll leave it to the smarter people here to tell me. (I was useless at Biology) - (Note: I tried www.ask.com and had no luck, so I went on wikipedia and found the link below:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproduction
MACHINE LEVINE
Ofblog said, "To connect Gary Bushell to football fans is highly offensive."
My mum has no interest in football but she listens to TalkSport a lot and then goes on at great length about how objectionable the presenters are. I find this hard to understand. "Shock Jocks" pretty much exist to antagonise their liberal listeners but I can't understand how come they have any.
ooh, lots of threads here.
Bushell - utter bag of shite, can't stand the creature
Alan Brazil - washed up ex-footballer who drinks too much (from his autobiography) who mumbles on the radio. Don't have an opinion on his views, have tried but can't get past his accent.
Gay footballers? I love the sport and honestly couldn't give a toss if the players are gay, black or whatever. The question I would ask any homophobic or racist 'fans' is "If the best footballer in the world was gay/black, would you want him in your team?" - Of course they would.
Gays that are 'out' - Again who gives a toss, it's their own business.
Anonomous - Who the hell are all these people? (sorry that was a crap anonomous joke).
AnonoNick
ps My name is Nick..I'm a hetro male (although it's none of your business), I love football and I think Bushell has a 'punch me' face, and one day I hope someone does....
Can we excuse H & J from this talksport bashing? I've also complained about a similar homophobic comment from a different presenter but it wasn't upheld
Who are H+J? Ananonick - of course its players business if they come out or not, but don't you think the lack of out footballers suggests a problem with the football environment? Don't ask/don't tell falls short of a genuinely inclusive society. I support a club that didn't used to hire Catholics so I don't share your confidence that fans would welcome gay players if they had the talent.
And I wasn't having a go at anonymous posters. Just find it weird, is all.
cerebusboy, fair point. I'd assumed all the gay ones were playing rugby instead? (that was a joke before I get the rugby lovers and the PR brigade onto me!!!). It is a sad reflection of the game I love that supporters have always tried to find some way to unsettle players and if a player does stand out for anything (fat, black, tall, slow, gay, Irish/Scottish/Welsh/English, foreign, wife who is Posh, greedy etc etc) will get stick.
Having said that I think people do move beyond first reactions. I was a David Bowie fan in my youth, when he came out as bi-sexual, did I stop buying his albums? No, I thought "blimey" and then carried on buying them. Did Elton John shed sales when he came out? Think of the stupid stuff George Michael has done and yet people still buy his stuff. So I think if a top footballer came out, yes away fans would give him stick and home fans would make up an amusing song (or grunt if they are Leeds) and life would go on.
AnonoNick
I see why use of the word 'perversion' is seen as vile. (I'm not using this as my gospel, just a reference point:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality
I certainly would endorse homosexuality being endorsed as a 'perversion' or a capital crime, and I'm sure Homosexuality does occur in other animals such as apes or bisons.
Question is, is the description given in that wikipedia link objective or inaccurate/homophobic?
And on AnonoNick's subject of 'punch me' faces, can I add Gordon Ramsay, Simon Cowell (for inadvertently giving us Graham Norton as an over-saturated product of bland nonsense and soulless music), and Jon Holmes, well for being Jon Holmes.
MACHINE LEVINE
Shit - I meant I WOULDN'T endorse homosexuality as 'perversion'.
Ananonick - Depressing as it might be to admit, I think the music environment is just more gay friendly than the football one. I agree that life would go in your example but the individual gay guy's life might border on the intolerable.And I don't think George Michael has done anything that stupid, sexually.
Machine Levine - As Stephen Fry has pointed out, even if homosexuality wasn't found in animals that wouldn't make it "unnatural"; animals don't display the higher human emotions either.
Too early to mention Justin Fashanu? Different day and age - but I don't doubt the same would happen in the apparently gay-friendly noughties.
As a gooner I was ashamed at the Emirates at the end of last season when we played Chelsea and the mobile phone props came out to jeer a not-even-playing (and probably not even kinky) Ashley Cole. Money-grabbing idiot he may be, but gay or straight it makes no difference.
Football is overrun with homophobia at present and it does need confronting. Even if it only makes you say 'blimey', it makes other footballers and thousands of idiot fans chant shit that upsets people. That's called oppression.
I agree that homophobio should be confronted and kudos should go to the sainted David Beckham for being so gay-friendly. In contrast, I remember a man united player (Rio?) talking about slagging Rooney off because Jake Shears said he fancied him.
that should be homophobia, sorry. Homophobio sounds like a festival.
Before I forget, can I also nominate the talentless Justin Lee Collins for having a 'punch me in the face' face?. Glad I got that off my chest.
AnonoNick
Elton John is a chairman at Watford, isn't he? As perversions go, that's quite bad...
I remember Steven Gerrard being interviewed for a documentary on Sky, and he was asked how he felt about being voted 'Sexiest Male' of 2005 by a gay magazine. He said that he really didn't mind, and seemed as though he was quite flattered by it.
I think that the attitudes displayed towards homosexuality in football (both players and supporters) is more down to the fact that when men get together in groups larger than two, they often to regress to the age of 7.
I'd mention also the Stefan Postma sex tape case (don't download the film, unless you're into kinky stuff). He was engaging in a sexual act with his wife/girlfriend, yet suffered homophobic abuse because of it! Strange how people's minds work.
Also, if homosexuality is down to genetics (as mentioned above), can not the same be said about the ability to play football? Maybe the two genes cannot be dominant in the same person? Just a thought.
Also, an honourable mention to Sonny Pike, who I believe is homosexual, although no longer playing football.
Jim Davidson, Jade Goody and Paul Danan all have 'punch-me' faces, too, although I wouldn't hit a woman. (I'd happily let Amir Khan do it, though.)
Chris
In the video, Stefan Postma was being penetrated by a marital aid which was attached to his wife's hips, in case anyone was curious as to the content. I've not seen it, I hasten to add!
Funny about that video. Although the prostate is of course the male equivalent of the g spot a number (the majority?) of men regard being pegged as tantamount to being gay. I doubt that people can have the gay or footballing gene, but not both.
Also the term pegged was coined by Dan Savage's readers. Credit where its due.
I'm not a fan of his music but I can certainly recommend those Elton John shed sales.
Dave,
Presumably because he's "got wood"?
D'oh - I always miss the good threads.
I would like to add my own comment.
Bushell is a cunt.
There, I feel so much better
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