One out
Another plug, not because I really think you'll rush out and buy it just because I mention it on my blog, but the DVD of Not Going Out Series One is in the shops today. I've just been a bought a copy. (It's quicker than waiting to be sent one.) Although I am understandably bitter not to have been involved in the audio commentaries - Lee did them with director Alex - they are very funny, and reveal some things that I didn't know, such as, at last, the origin of the theme song. It was written by Alex Hardcastle, our aforementined director (I had no idea), and sung by the bloke who impersonates Frank Sinatra in the Rat Pack show that was still on in the West End at the time. I don't know his name, but there you go.
The final episode of NGO on Friday managed to pull 3.6 million viewers, which I'm really chuffed about. Thank you for watching.
posted by Andrew Collins @ 4:49 PM
56 Comments
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56 Comments:
Why does nobody ever shut the front door of the flat. Puts me all on edge.
Andrew, here's a "commentary" question you might be able to answer. Why is Not Going Out called Not Going Out?
There seems to be nothing in the scenario of the show which relates to "not going out". In fact, there are plenty of scenes in which the protagonists are going out. So what's that all about then?
'Not Going Out' are the words that the commissioning editor wishes he'd said.
It's crap, Andrew. Really.
And how come you are not involved in the commentaries, thats a bit of a shame really.
I thought it was a reference to the fact the bloke wasn't "going out with" the lady. As in "life partners".
Now I hate to be negative, but can you promise me that The Christmas Special and Series Three will not feature the character Guy. I was frightened I'd get splinters everytime he appeared. The Cleaner on the other hand, Miranda Hart, her, I like.
"It's crap, Andrew. Really."
Some people are so rude. But well done to you, Nick, for having the guts to come up and knock on my door and then run away.
The commissioning editor who commissioned it was Peter Fincham, so I doubt he's thinking much about it at all, to be honest.
I bought a copy today and am looking forward to hearing the commentary. I won't be buying the second series when/if it comes out though. Nowhere near as good imho. Still funny, but wouldn't hold up to repeated viewings as well.
Not Going Out was chosen because it initially referred to Lee being a layabout and to the fact that he and the woman he lives with were not going out with each other. Two allusions for the price of one. Or not, since Lee actually did leave the flat more than we had planned. We originally had him as a bloke who dreamed of being a professional darts player, and had dart boards up all around the flat, which he constantly practised on. There's a piece of trivia that might have made the commentaries if they'd invited me!
The Guy "arc" is complete, so there's no need for him in the Christmas special or Series Three, should there be a series three. It's crap. Really.
Incidentally, and this is in the commentary, at one of the read-throughs, we actually invited the audience to put suggestions for a title into a hat. And they did. And they were the worst titles you've ever seen in your life. So we stuck with what we had.
Another cast shuffle, less writers, and more time for you guys to write it are all on my wishlist for series three!
While you obviously don't want to bite the hand that feeds you Andrew, you're usually a very candid chap. How did you rate series two compared with series one?
I didn't knock on your door and run away, Andrew, I knocked on your door and waited for about 10 seconds until you came running to the door in your knickers with your hair all wet. I'm still here.
Come on, mate, it's rubbish.
On a positive note...
I pre-ordered Series 1, although it still hasnt arrived yet due to postal shenanigans. *thinks* Lee as a postman... *hmmm*...
It's been fascinating for us having been at the read-throughs to be spotting the subtle additions and differences in the finished show.
I am forced to agree with clivec's point - although the front door thing was probably my biggest moan about Series 2.
More please, Mr Collins!
Loved series two not seen series one yet. May put it on my wish list for xmas. Not crap at all fella. Good work and keep Tim Vine in tv!
It's a good laugh, well done
Nick and Nigel:
Why are you even here? Nothing constructive or even interesting said by either of you.
One of the downsides of blogging is that unpleasant little snides seem to think they can be as rude as they like just because they're not face to face with the person they're being rude to.
Very sad people.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
You are Paul Ross and I claim my five pounds!
But popping up and just saying "what you did was rubbish" isn't particularly saying "boo", is it. Its just behaving like a rude nob. People probably wouldn't mind so much if they said WHY they thought it was rubbish rather than just being horrible. Maybe you might behave like that and do that in real life, maybe you wouldn't, depends how rude you are really.
Why should I say why I think it's rubbish when those other people can't bring themselves to say why they think it's good? Saying it's 'a good laugh' isn't constructive either.
Ok then, I think it's rubbish because it doesn't make me laugh. The jokes are poor and the set up's cliched.
Boo!
Sometimes the most innocuous entries cause the most trouble.
I think anyone who's been following the blog will know that I am pretty circumspect about the stuff I work on, including Not Going Out. (I don't see anything wrong in plugging stuff I've worked on though.) I've been following a very long thread about Not Going Out on the British Sitcom Guide site, where comedy fans gather, and much of the feedback has been positive, some of it not, with a bit in between where people say they preferred the first series and didn't like Barbara. This I find very interesting (and I often comment under my own name and it hasn't prevented anyone from offering constructive criticism), and we would be mad not to take some of it onboard should we get a third series, as the site is run by, and used by, people who love their comedy. Oddly, nobody on there has felt the need to say, "It's crap." I don't want people to not like it, but I understand that not everybody will.
Of all the things I've worked on, I'd say Grass is top of the list of programmes I care the most about. Some critics didn't like Grass, and gave it a hard time, and I didn't have a blog at the time, so I was unable to gauge people's feelings as immediately as I am now. I like that immediacy. And you have to take the rough with the smooth. But somebody calling themselves Nick, then Nigel, then R Herring, trying to rile me by just lobbing insults like grenades is pretty baffling.
What does it achieve beyond a cheap thrill for the flamer?
What response do they expect? I mean, really. Yes, you're right, Not Going Out is rubbish. It was a huge conspiracy to create something rubbish. You've rumbled us. And very clever use of the word "mate" for maximum passive-agressive effect. I'll leave these comments up for now. Why not? They don't exactly add to the sum happiness of the world, but I think I can get over them. I've taken the last one down, the one signed, hilariously, as R Herring, which of course wasn't. In this final flourish, he described me as "self-regarding" and those that comment on the blog as "fawning".
I'd say that anybody who writes a blog is self-regarding to a degree. But then so it anyone who believes their opinion matters so much they must share it in a public forum.
As for the fawning - it's a pity you can't compliment someone without it being judged as fawning.
I'm going to be outrageously controversial here but I thought that NGO was splendid. Yes, the leaving-the-door-open thing was distracting, but...
I've not seen series 1 but the handful of episodes of s2 I saw made me laugh. I couldn't quite believe it: a Friday night sit-com that made me laugh. Repeatedly. The simple act of sitting in front of a sit-com laughing is so rare these days that I cannot thank the makers enough - yourself included AC. This show has jokes in it. Not gentle comfort humour but actual jokes. Y'know, wit. The cast were really good - even the female lead was funny and that's a very difficult job. I can't say that I'll be buying the DVD but I will be looking out for the next time the show appears.
Excuse me while I wall up my house in preparation for the Simpsons-esque angry mob descending.
At the risk of sounding fawning, I loved Grass. Not only was it very funny, it was beautiful to watch with a very strong cast. And it was a great shame it didn't get a second series, especially when you consider some of the shite BBC3 has re-commisioned in the past few years.
Not Going Out, series 2 whilst still having "laugh out loud" funny parts, suffered, in my opinion, from having to introduce too many new characters too quickly, and wasn't as smooth as Series One. Hopefully, if there is a third series, there will be continuity with the cast, although I am rather pleased to have had the confirmation that Guy has gone for good.
I personally wasn't a fan of NGO when the first series aired, but caught some of the repeats and enjoyed it more.
I caught the first couple of episodes of series 2 and wasn't my cup of tea.
I think I have trouble with the format and some of the performances. I'm not a big fan of Lee's very jokey persona - all one liners and 'actual jokes' - but I totally get that this is what would appeal to some. I would prefer the jokes to fit into the dialogue rather than the dialogue serve the gags. Cos a lot of the gags are great, they just sit... uncomfortably I guess.
I also think that while Lee is a tremendous comic, he's not the best actor. I also think Sally Bretton is a bit wooden. Miranda Hart though I love, and Tim Vine was a lovely surprise considering I'm not much of a fan of his.
Even though I don't like it particularly I am pleased that it has been successful, as I think BBC1 needs a popular mainstream sitcom that isn't also a 'safe' family sitcom like those awful Fred Barron products (I think 'product' is the best work for them) that rely on the audience goodwill towards Robert Lindsay and Nicholas Lyndhurst.
My tuppence worth:
Grass was truly excellent comedy, and it's a shame that more episodes weren't made.
NGO is a bit patchy, in my opinion, but still worth watching. 3.9 million people is a great audience for it, too.
Not to be too harsh, but I think it is let down by the 'cut-away' shots of London inbetween the action, as it just seems like a Friends imitation.
Also, as much as I like her, Miranda Hart's character seems extremely one-dimensional at the moment. The cleaner who breaks things joke was a one-liner at most, and seems to have worn out very quickly. Her appearance in the opening credits is rather cringeworthy.
The only other criticism I have is that the action and dialogue seem a bit too slow in places. If the show was a bit faster moving, rather than a series of set-ups and punchlines, I think it would be a lot more flowing.
Having said that, Lee Mack and Tim Vine are extremely good together, so it is worth watching just for them.
Keep up the good work, Andrew.
What happened to the American version of 'The Sketch Show' that Mack was starring in? Did it ever make it to screen?
re: American version of Sketch show - I thought it did 'cos Kelsey Grammer was in it.
3.6 million viewers not going out? that is impressive, unfortunately I didn't see it as weekends are my nights out.
In fact I only saw a couple of season/series 2. Was it me or was it more scenario based than series 1? It didn't seem to have the rapid-fire setup-punchline combination that worked for me in series 1.
The episodes I saw were better than your average My Family or After You've Gone, and that's what you'd hope for I suppose.
Out of interest, do you think Friday is the best day for it to be on?
machine levine
"Saying it's 'a good laugh' isn't constructive either."
Why not?, I thought it was a good laugh and is that not the point of a sit-com?
i like it. the gags keep on coming and the pace is fast. I like the pub/trendy winebar scenes the best. Have you seen the price of the wine in there (on the board) - makes me not want to go out.
i do find the panning shots of 'the city' in between scenes really really annoying. that's nothing to do with the writing which is top notch - it's down to the editing.
I find the style of these shots and the little 'jingles' that go with them really really distracting and far too american. The ones in 'friends' (shot of coffee shop, shot of apartment block) annoyed me so much i stopped watching it years ago.
There's another american editing style that uses single camera shots and pans too quickly and changes focus just far too much and it just gives me a headache i have to switch off.
I think you should have wrote the theme tune and drummed the theme tune andrew.
You could always do your own audio commentary Andrew and make it available as an MP3!! We could listen to it on a iPod or similar while the episodes play on the TV!
This could be made available for whatever price we wanted to pay for it, like Radiohead did!
RE: anonymous post above - I am now unable to tell the difference between genuine enthusiasm and a very clever parody of enthusiasm. What a cynical world we must inhabit.
As for the US-style inserts and stings - it's the same as the huge Friends-style apartment: a deliberate ploy not to fall into the British front room sitcom trap. Also, in order to do physical comedy, which Lee likes to do, it's better to have a bigger space to perform in, where the camera can actually see your feet, which doesn't happen much in the standard sitcom set-up. I can see why the glam shots might annoy. Equally, I am under no illustions that the gag-athon style will be to all tastes. But that's the kind of comedy Lee wanted to make, and which we have all strived to achieve. I think Lee carries it off. And Tim.
I don't like the slap bass in Seinfeld, James, but I suffer through it.
"The episodes I saw were better than your average My Family or After You've Gone."
Is this really what is expected from a comedy these days? Jesus!
I also read a review of Armstrong and Miller's second episode recently, where the defense for a patchy show was "...let's not be picky here-any sketch show that isn't life-wastingly awful is to be treasured and encouraged." Why? Surely the point of a comedy (or any programe) is to be as brilliant as possible.
For me comedy is black and white- it's either Seinfeld or it's My Hero, if you haven't got the talent to create an I'm Alan Partridge, or the like, then don't bother, even if the BBC1 Comedy commissioner is wafting money in your face.
I understand that you can't have characters effing and blinding everywhere on prime time Friday, but that doesn't mean you can't be original. Perhaps the real blame lies with the people who commission this kind of stuff, but to be honest the writers have take a large proportion of the blame. Hopefully now the BBC is supposed to be making quality rather than quanity we may see an end to this kind of generic Friday night tosh...but I some how doubt it.
P.S. You're fighting a losing battle when your leading man says his lines with all the conviction of the speaking clock.
As you purport to be a fan of 'Carry On Screaming' I fail to understand why you couldn't of found a role for Tom Clegg. He would of been perfect in the role Miranda Hart played.
Is that a joke? I don't get it.
Meanwhile, to the points made above by Ahab: fair enough. It didn't work for you. You've had your say. For the record, we made the pilot for BBC2, but Peter Fincham saw it and decided he wanted it for BBC1, which meant we had to tailor it slightly for a more mainstream audience. (That said, I hope it's a little less cosy than My Family.) Do you actually think, at the point when we were offered a series, we should have said, "No thanks. Because we might not be able to make it as good as Seinfeld"? If so, you can never have worked in telly. (Actually, I know you don't think that, you're just making a point.)
I'm happy to take part of the "blame" for what you see as a bad sitcom, Ahab, but I can also promise you that we aimed high. It was bloody hard work making both series (which is not to say you have to like it because of that, but it really was a lot harder than writing Grass, which had fewer gags, fewer punchlines, fewer set-ups etc.). It may not be Seinfeld, but certain friends and family of mine wouldn't laugh at Seinfeld, and they laughed at NGO. I like the fact that people of different ages seemed to like it. Seinfeld is genius that's appreciated only by a small amount of people in this country, likewise Curb. But we didn't set out to make another Seinfeld. We set out to give Lee a vehicle to transfer his stand-up persona to television. Clearly, a liking of Lee - and Tim - is going to be central to your enjoyment of it.
We'll have to leave it there, I think. Nothing I say is going to make you like it, and nor do I expect it to. But at least you're not just saying, "it's crap" and calling me "mate", like you were before, which is a move forward.
I think the lack lustre cast is the best example of it's average quality.
Sorry to puncture your Hercule Poirot act Andrew, but that's my first comment on the subject- I can understand why you might think the earlier posts were mine (as we are both essentially having a pop) but they are not.
Pardon my paranoia, Ahab, but all of a sudden I seem to be attracting a whole string of antagonistic postings from people with names I don't recognise. It's a fucking minefield. (Samuel, for instance. Could Samuel be Nick or Nigel or Edna? What fun it is to try and work out. I'd actually rather it wasn't the same person, because if it was, what an embarrassing individual he would be turning out to be. Have your little pop, by all means, but then have the decency to go off and bother someone else.)
The mainstream sitcom is one of the most difficult things to:
A) get right
and
B) actually get commissioned
so the fact that Not Going Out has made it to our screens in itself should be applauded, let alone it becoming a success for BBC1. It's comparitively easy to get yourself a hit on BBC2 or Channel 4 - just take a few 'cult' comics, a glowing review in Heat magazine that makes the people who take that organ seriously think that they ought to be watching it, and would feel embarrassed in front of their friends if they didn't - and it still won't get the viewers of a primetime sitcom, which is made for the enjoyment of a very broad church. You might not like it, but there are millions who do - harder to please them than the 1.5 million or so who watch Peep Show, which, whilst wonderful, isn't for everyone.
The comments from Ahab and the other hater(s) have seriously inspired me. He's so right!
I can't stand cricket so tomorrow I'm going to go into the International Cricket Council and tell them I think their sport is rubbish. If they can't make it as good as football they shouldn't bother to make it all! Millions enjoy cricket? Well I don't and that's all that matters. No more cricket thanks.
Then I'm going to go into my local Martin McColl's and tell them they should close the doors and make their staff redundant because they clearly aren't as good, or as popular as WH Smith, my favourite newsagent.
I'm a lager man so let’s stop producing bitter, cider and all those other drinks which, frankly, are nowhere near as brilliant as Carlsberg or Fosters. Other people’s likes and dislikes don’t matter. Fact.
If your opinion can’t be exactly the same as mine, don’t bother having one.
@Clair... Broad Church? - Shame it couldn't keep the 2 million plus discerners who switched channels at 9.30pm.....
i always find it hilarious how personally people take 'bad' entertainment.
AC, its actually quite good. no more than that, but you sure didnt deserve all this crap. please dont feel less encouraged to talk about NGO in future
im no psycholollygist either, but these guys sure need to find more constructive ways to release their pent-up frustrations. deep breathing helps.
fawningly yours
some bloke
To keep me amused between "Have I Got News For You" and "Q.I." is no mean feat, so thanks Andrew.
"Not Going Out" contains plenty of good lines that I store up and try to sneak into my own conversation. (If it gets a big laugh I'll acknowledge I nicked it from your show).
I don't give a shit whether anybody thinks I'm fawning or not, but I would really like to say that I have bought, read and thoroughly enjoyed "WDIAGR" and "HKIMN" and I enjoyed "Not Going Out" (although the constantly slow-panning cameras were a slight distraction) - I really do hope there's a third series.
I'm pretty sure I remember being impressed by you on "Telly Addicts" too, but I realise that I'm probably coming across as a bit of a stalker now. And I'm not. Really.
I work with a Brazilian woman called Vera. By her own admission, even after 25 years domicile here she doesn't quite get the British sense of humour. But she Love NGO.
Could be a back-handed compliment except that I liked it too. I liked it a) because it made me laugh (see Saxondale thread) and b) because it wasn't quite like any other British comedy on at the moment. As a Sitcom the 'sit' was occasionally creaky but the 'Com' was good. That's much better than the other way around (Saxondale again).
So that's what me and Vera think.
And having been happy to cross swords with you in the past Andy-baby (see Saxondale… etc) I feel no urge to blow smoke up your arse on this now. Can someone tell me why that phrase means what it means?
If everyone stopped wanking over Seinfeld and Curb for just one moment, then we might be able to get some comedy actually commissioned here.
They're in a different league and we accept that.
There are comedy shows that still make you laugh (like NGO) and have no pretensions towards the Seinfeld end of the market. Seinfeld and Curb are not everyone's cup of tea after all. More of a critical hit this side of the pond, much like the Sopranos. Great stuff, but no fucker watches it.
So embrace all good new British comedy and accept it for what it is and what it's trying to do.
I love Not Going Out and I think people should get off Andrew's back. It's a great show.
Now, having said that I did have a slight complaint about the second series which I hope is taken in the way that it is intended. I'm not having a pop, I loved both series.
I believe the rock of the show is the relationship between Lee and Tim. In the first series you had a perfect foil in Kate because both Tim and Lee wanted her, and there was a chance that she could have reciprocated. The rivalry between Lee and Tim created joke scene after joke scene.
In the second series you have a more difficult problem mainly because Tim and Lucy aren't going to go out (I'm not suggesting that they do). Because nobody likes Guy there isn't any tension in the relationship. So I'm left constantly waiting for Tim and Lee to be left alone (generally in the Wine bar) because those are generally the best scenes. My favorite in the second season was the guys with the subbuteo and the baby.
I don't feel that I had that in the first series, I didn't mind which pair of characters was on screen (or all three) but this series seems a little watered down.
So in essence I think that Guy and Barbara are a distraction from what's actually wrong. It's not their fault. I think the problem is that Lucy shouldn't have been Tim's sister.
I guess you wanted to avoid a Becky from Rosanne situation but I think it's hurt the joke potential.
Other than that, if you could have them close the door in the flat then that would be great!
I really hope that you find another sponsor in the B.B.C. post Fincham. I really want to see Series 3!
Well I loved every episode of NGO. I laughed so much that I thought I might explode and you can't say fairer than that. Fortunately I didn't explode and now look forward to series three.
Excellent work and well done.
On the same page of Radio Times that the sketch show quote came from ("any sketch show that isn't life-wastingly awful is to be treasured" - not a remark to be taken entirely literally, surely?) comes this quote from Jim (son of John) Sullivan on The Green Green Grass:
"The ideas are out there - you just have to spot them."
Made me smile anyway.
Andrew,
I'm risking abuse with this, but I think a slight problem with NGO for me was that it had too many jokes. Now I understand why: as a reaction to the paucity of gags in most UK sitcoms, NGO's gag rate is very welcome! But as it went on, I felt the show might've benefited from more space. The characters couldn't develop or surprise because they were subject to constant joke-making. The jokes dictated the characters rather than the other way round. (I'm not sure that's entirely fair but I stand by it as a generalisation)
I know that sounds a bit mad, but I think the really great sitcoms have, alongside a good laugh rate, characters you love and care about. I'm not sure NGO ever quite hit this. Grass did and I think the 2nd series of The IT Crowd did well in this respect. I began to love those characters and look forward to spending time with them.
Am I deluded? Do sitcoms need more than a string of good jokes? (I seem to remember Victoria Wood saying she took jokes OUT of Dinnerladies, in order to give the remaining jokes room to breathe.) At the moment, for me, NGO runs the risk of being the wisecracking-but-slightly-annoying mate down the pub who has a stack of great gags, but can't judge when to calm down a little. The great sitcoms often make me feel, as well as laugh.
It's a good show, especially for BBC1, but it has the possibility of being a great show, if it could find more emotion/humanity in its characters, perhaps.
Hope you take this in the positive spirit it's intended. A great sitcom is the holy grail of TV and I think NGO is a strong attempt.
Best wishes
Niall
Does anyone have any examples of British sitcoms without jokes?
There was one called 'So Haunt Me', about a Jewish ghost.
I'm pretty sure that had no jokes.
Oh, and anything written by Carla Lane.
Matt, Saxondale goes one stage further and has no humour in it at all.
'Next of Kin' with Penelope Keith and William Gaunt was particularly dreadful, too.
The premise was that two (or was it three) children are orphaned following a car crash, and are sent to their grandparents house in order to grieve and come to terms with their loss...
...with hilarious consequences!
The Royale Family appears to be joke free to my eyes and ears...
The sitcom, or the Windsors?
I laughed with the sitcom, and at the Windsors...
Ok, is that just stuff you don't find funny? or do they really exclude gags?
Just stuff that wasn't very funny, sorry.
Not sure what you mean by having no gags...can you explain a bit more?
The Royle Family and Early Doors don't have rigid set-up/punchline style gags, but the gags are still there.
Surely a sitcom without gags is like a bondage shop without...ummm...gags?
Thanks for your considered comments, Niall. I think that's the polar opposite of coming on here, telling me I'm crap under an assumed name, and then running away (or, even worse, hanging around, trying to rile me for sport). I take your comments onboard. We're hoping there'll be a third series - depends on who the new controller of BBC1 is, which is up in the air currently - and it would be nice to try and let the characters breathe a bit. We'll see. It may be academic. 3.6 million may not be enough for ITV's advertisers. Oh no, sorry, no, it's on the BBC, and they don't have advertisers, so ratings shouldn't be a yardstick, surely?
I'm not sure either, other people in this thread have compared NGO to sitcoms that don't have jokes.
Is the distiction whether they tell or act out a joke?
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