Some men have beaten some other men at rugby
I couldn't give a monkey's.
posted by Andrew Collins @ 11:13 AM
60 Comments
Monday, October 15, 2007
I couldn't give a monkey's.
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Exactly! It's like wrestling with a huge egg thrown in every now and then.
She might have been refering to "normal" football, but Father Ted's Mrs. Doyle hit the nail on the head when she proclaimed...
"It's just a load of men, kicking a bit of leather around a field, shouting!" (sorry if I've misquoted, FT followers). Not to mention the hoards of braying toffs who follow this pile of shite.
On the sartorial front, wearing rugby tops in "real life"? It's not a great look really, is it?
So, knowingly underwhelmed for once, eh, Andrew? I must say, I'm with you on this one. Reminds me of a day during the last World Cup (the one with round balls) when I just felt so fed up with all the tribal hoo-hah that seemed to have everyone else so excited, that my blog post for the day read, in its entirety, "I fucking hate football.". My views haven't changed in the interim, and now extend to rugby, cricket, and just about anything else that involves millions of couch potatoes getting loud and emotional because somebody else is playing sport.
Rather stupidly I flicked past Radio 5 Live on my way to work this morning. It always annoys me when I do, so why did I do it ?
People were debating whether Rugby should take over from Football as The National Sport. I had no idea these kind of Desperately Important Things could be decided by radio committee like this.
So "Shut Up! It's Pointless!" I screamed, and put on some calming Cat Stevens instead.
I read something interesting rugby related fact over the weekend though - during the course of one, admittedly pointless, match players generally lose 3kg in weight. There would hardly be any of me left.
Ahahaha - ace post. I heartily agree Mr AC. Rugby is dull.
I tried to watch it but after 10 minutes of watching idiots fighting, I gave up and caught up on the Saxondales I'd missed.
Mine is not necessarily to criticse rugby, or those who find it compelling, just to say that I actually truly don't care that England beat another team on Saturday and will now play against another one. I'm not one for sport, generally, and certainly I'm a useless nationist, but I wish those well who follow it. I just don't have the head space, is the truth of the matter.
Oh, and rugby does look to me like a particularly graceless display of strength.
I don't like Rugby Union, but don't mind League. Union is a bit too untidy to watch, so I wasn't swept up in the current rugby loving wave at the weekend, either.
Rugby Union is one of those sports that would probably still be the same even if they removed the ball from the game.
Andrew, you are now officially my favourite person. Rugby: I can barely contain my apathy...
Yawn! Ten years ago no one could have cared less about rugby except a few braying surveyors in Wandsworth. Now football has died as far as England are concerned, rugby is the tabloids' only hope, hence the inflated fuss.
Sport bores me.
What a wonderful way to piss all over something that lots of people get a lot of pleasure from.
If you do not like sport and do not care about England winning my question is Andrew; would it not have been easier to say nothing ?
I really don't want that post to sound aggressive and fall into all the cliches of the sports fan but that kind of simple dismissal makes me as cross as somebody saying 'modern music's crap aint it ?' or 'There hasn't been a great sitcom since Only Fools and Horses.' without giving two seconds to think about it.
Two things, Pierre:
1. The Rugby World Cup is everywhere. It has been decided, from on high, that we must now all care about rugby. I am entitled to say I don't give a monkey's, which is all said. And I have thought about it for longer than two seconds. If somebody wrote that modern music is crap, I would probably ignore them, on the understanding that I'd be unlikely to change their mind by citing the Klaxons album.
2. Actually, the only reason I posted was that somebody demanded that I comment on the rugby in the thread below. Since I have very little to say, I said very little.
The floor is yours.
I'm a bit baffled by this rugby phenomenon as well. Why are so many people apparently suddenly interested while England are doing well? I suppose that's just me being a football fan (that's real football!) where it doesn't really matter who's playing or who wins as long as its a good game.
"England's semi final victory over France in the Rugby World Cup attracted a peak audience of more than 12 million viewers to ITV1 on Saturday night. The audience for England's tense 14-9 victory over the tournament hosts peaked with 12.1 million viewers and a 50% share in the quarter hour from 9.30pm, as the match reached its nail-biting conclusion, according to unofficial overnights."
Balance.
Just by being apathetic about rugby and/or not liking it, doesn't mean that it has spoiled the victory for anyone else.
I know some people who don't like Marmite, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying it.
Having said that, rugby - in whatever form it takes - is still a load of shite, though.
Andrew I was unaware somebody had asked you to comment. I would argue that the fact it is wall to wall why it may be irritating is a reflection of people's interest in it.
I have no wish to convert anybody to rugby, My interest is only piqued at World Cups the rest of the time I am as apathetic as anybody else.
It is just the world is pretty harsh at the moment and it strikes me that something that people get genuinely enthused about is a good thing. And I do not like to see it dismissed.
Yours hoping that I have not been too bombastic. If I did not like your books and posts Andrew I would not bother commenting.
An interesting use for the blog. Sort of: Rugby - all in favour say aye, all against say no... I think the no's have it.
I am a fervent anti-nationalist - having lived in England and Catalunya I've seen two types, and both are bollocks. I do however often have a right old time watching teams representing this country (England or GB, depending).
I watched the game on Saturday with a friend who is not only a passionate rugby fan, but also one of this country's leading experimental theatre directors. It was fun.
Well I can Andrew (but not in the way you might think) so thanks for responding to my plea.
No doubt many of you have enjoyed this Educated Idiots, WW1 re-enactment tournament in France (come on just look at the similarities: A bloody war of attrition carried out in European mud, organised by the upper classes for their own entertainment under the pretence of nationalism. A miserable, tedious and merciless combat, completely lacking in any skills or tactics, in which no one really wins anything other than a few feet of soil but England eventually emerge marginally on top. Only the uniforms and the Germans are missing) so can someone explain a few things to me?
1) When we used to have to play this rubbish at school we were forced to spend hours and hours practising running with the ball and passing it backwards. Ex-England international Alan Old was one of the teachers, so I'm sure we learned the correct rules. So when was it collectively decided that, at international level anyway, they just wouldn't bother with the 'Forward Pass' rule?
2) And when did England abandon any attempt to play the sport the way it was intended? I've seen 160 minutes of brawling interrupted by some tiresome kicking by Jonny 'Jonny' Wilkinson. (a man who was clearly told this year's world cup would be conducted in fancy dress and he has come as Roger Daltrey in the rock opera 'Tommy'.). So what are those blokes at the back for then? Are they meant to receive the ball at any point and run with it? Or are they just young 'fags', expected to carry out menial tasks, with an under-current of the love that dare not speak its name, on behalf of the older and bigger boys?
3) Is this the only 'sport' in the world that involves both sides being continually coached by the referee whilst the game is in progress? (I'm using the term 'progress' loosely, obviously). Probably because no one know the rules so sir/referee just makes them up as he goes along?
Come on everybody, a one two... a one two, three, "Sink Lo, posh thuggery, coming forth to bore me at home". Why do they insist on singing that gibberish? And why are they so smug about it?
Sorry to pee on the pitch if you are enjoying the ridiculous pantomime, but you know... it's emperor's new clothes time, the kings are in the all-together and I'm just here to point it out. Give me the cheating, swearing, referee-baiting, over-paid prima donnas of the Premier League any day over that macho bunch of posturing, nice but dims.
I'm going for a lie down... in my working class hovel.
"I have no wish to convert anybody to rugby."
You made a joke!
Pierre, the world is pretty harsh at the moment, and I have already said that I wish those who follow rugby well (God, it's hard being so reasonable!), but it would seem odd for me not to say what I actually feel in my blog, which is that I don't give a monkey's about England's victory. I really don't. It's a point of view, just as it is to say (which I intend to), that I quite liked Californication and 30 Rock. Equally, I don't give a monkey's that some Blairites are apparently criticising some Brownites, which is the other big story in my newspaper today. My beef, as so often, is with media over-reaction.
... oh and, I know you were just responding to another poster above but I didn't 'demand' you post something about Rugby; I asked nicely. After all it's your blog, so I'm very grateful you did and I feel better for it.
True. If you've demanded, Oldnathan, I might not have done it.
To tell the truth, I've got a lot of work to do, and I didn't have time to write a long entry this morning.
This is fantastic!
I love the fact that a blog post containing one picture and a total of fourteen words (including the title) has prompted over 20 comments in the space of just two hours.
Ya beauty!
What a joyless bunch of folk most of the posters here are.
No, it's not the most widely played sport in the country, but 12 million people must have got some kind of pleasure out of it to tune in on Saturday. Just possibly its because its a once-in-four years event and hey, more by luck than judgement, England are doing ok. Most people couldn't give a tuppeny toss about athletics for 3.5 years out of 4(check the viewing figures for a regular event meeting on BBC2 on a Sunday afternoon, they'll not be stellar) but the Olympics still seems to have large numbers of people in thrall. Does the fleeting nature of people's interest diminish it?
Some of the class warfare stuff is marvellous entertainment too. Any second now I think someone's going to try to sell me a Socialist Worker. Sporting people who are also educated - who'd have thought it?
It's just ugly men fighting, didn't watch it (went to the theatre to watch Boeing, Boeing instead) and have no interest in it, but it is nice to see England doing well in something isn't it?
Having said that, the important thing about Saturday is that we won the FOOTBALL....
AnonoNick
I don't buy into the Class War aspect either, Steve (I certainly don't believe that only toffs support rugby, as my own mother-in-law is the biggest rugby fan I know), but I don't think one person not liking another person's sport is necessarily "joyless". You find your joy in one place, I find it somewhere else. And as someone who only bothers about football during the World Cup - something I made pretty plain during the last one - I can hardly have a problem with people who only get involved with other sports during big tournaments. I still recoil from media hype, I can't help it.
To reiterate, I don't give a monkey's. Others actually give quite a lot of a monkey's, but in the opposite direction. I'm glad I started this one. Life would be intolerable if we all liked the same things.
There really are some very smug “sport is the opiate of the masses I don't like it therefore aren't I interesting & intelligent?” posts on here aren’t there.
To which I should add a) no I’m not a big rugby fan and b) I don’t include AC’s in this.
Saint Nick
I do give a Monkey's, I thought it was great.
I didn't see any fighting though??
Me I'm full of joy. Well full of something anyway.
Having said that I can't stand athletics either. Mind you if they abandoned all attempts to stop the drug taking and actually encouraged it, it might be good. Let’s have a Drug Fuelled Olympics with the drug of choice clearly emblazoned across the chest of each athlete, so we can compare which is best.
Some people just don’t get it do they? I hate rugby but I can live in piece with it most of the time. In the same way that I can live in piece knowing that the majority of people who watch it piss about on the stock exchange and financial markets, messing with peoples lives. You know live and let live and all that. But it’s the bleeding media coverage that does me in and the ridiculous taunting of our proud footballers that goes with it (yeah I’m probably on my own on that one I know!).
Andrew, agreed that to not like the sport is certainly not joyless. To rain on other people's parade is. Fair play to you, you were asked for your opinion and gave it without resorting to tired and tiresome cliches about those that play the game and those that watch it, which is more than can be said for some of the other posters.
Old Nathan: "the majority of people who watch it piss about on the stock exchange and financial markets, messing with peoples lives." Really? So the good folk who go and watch Leicester, Bath, Bristol, Gloucester, Northampton, Leeds, Sale, Newcastle etc are all commuting to the City every week then? I think its you that has the blinkered view of the game's spread of appeal rather than the game only appealing to a privileged few.
I have no particular axe to grind for rugby - I played it at school, and go occasionally to watch Leeds, but I'm more of a football man, having a season ticket and still playing every week (38 year old knees permitting). It's the lazy stereotyping that's annoying.
“sport is the opiate of the masses I don't like it therefore aren't I interesting & intelligent?”, says Nick.
As I'm one of those posters who's not interested in the rugby or sport in general, then I must be a joyless pseudo-intellectual snob, right?
i used to think the same but having attended "the boys school" (as in WDIGAR) i have a history of playing it. Truth is you can't really appreciate it unless you have played it. I fell out with rugby a bit after going to art school but have recently come back to it.
I can't stand football and the all hoohah that goes with, the violence, the corruption, than namby pamby overpaid players etc. Just imagine if it were england at the World Cup final for soccer, then you get serious blanket coverage.
At a rugby match the opposing spectators are all mixed together. there's never any trouble and most of the people are down to earth and not toffs at all. The players can lay into each other on the pitch and be best buddies in the bar afterwards. It teaches discipline and fairness. I think the players are far better examples than 'poofball' players who dive and moan at nothing.
having said all that i'd rather see northampton beating leicester than england beating france.
I like modern music, art and theatre too.
The only thing Rugby Union has going for it is that it's marginally less boring than Tennis.
I think Andrew is allowed to say whatever he wants. It's his blog after all.
The question I would like to raise is about Chabal, the French 'Caveman'. How come he has gotten so much bigger over just a couple of years?
I'm not suggesting he's taking anything illegal, but he has had the body growth that normally comes with the use of steroids.
He must have a very good personal trainer and drink a lot of protein shakes...
You make some valid points Steve M. However as they do not fit with my own particularly blinkered view of the world I'm chosing to ignore them.
I'm just redressing the hype with some of my own and make no apologies for doing so. This isn't a court of law and neither of us can prove anything. Relax and enjoy the fun.
Speaking as an Englishman living in Cape Town. The final is gonna be great. I'd rather watch a game of Rugby than the boring drivel that is called Premiership Soccer these days.
Also it's only in the UK that rugby is seen as a toffs game. Everywhere else its played by every class.
I don't give a monkeys, AND I loved 30 Rock, so yaay Andrew. I'm also fascinated at how people are amazed that, on someones' personal blog, they should get flamed for an opinion which the poster finds disagreeable.
As the old T-shirt says, 'Rugby is a game played by men with odd-shaped balls'.
Indeed Andrew you are entitled to say what you like but I am inclined to the view that if you've nothing good to say then say nothing. As the incredibly excellent comedian Josie Long says about cynicism, when you get to the end of your life no-one is going to give you a medal and say 'well done, you enjoyed none of it.'
er, this seems to be getting a bit personal.
Firstly isn't it great that we all have the opportunity to have different interests?
Secondly, all AC has said is that he is not into Rugby. And this has generated debate and a variety of views which is the whole point of a blog isn't it?
AnonoNick
Apathy should be celebrated! Apathy towards rugby, football, the ever-continuing-Diana's-still-dead weirdness, politics, whatever. It would be a far better place if people really could find it in themselves to be apathetic about more stuff, rather than working themselves up into a bizarre fits of apoplexy.
Actually, celebrating apathy would rather defeat the point, wouldn't it? Let's all feel ambivalent towards apathy instead...
I like watching rugby, it's a fast, exciting game and the fact it's played by brutes ( of any class) doesn't particularly bother me. Men find multiple ways of showing their 'competitive spirit' and rugby is no worse that many others. As Jades says, the violence is confined to the pitch, and there is never any trouble among the spectators.
I feel strangely compelled to trot out my working-class credentials here and say that my Dad worked in a car factory and I grew up in a spotlessly proletarian household, so i don't count myself as a 'braying' middle-class fan. My brother-in-law played rugby for Pontypridd ten years ago or so, and though English rugby may be the preserve of those evil doctors and solicitors, in Wales it remains a working-class game.
I've now lost interest personally, as my favourite teams (Ireland and France) got knocked out, but it's a fair bet that regardless of the result on Saturday, the town centres of the country won't be turned into battlegrounds the way they would if the English football team were playing in a World Cup final.
Thanks for kicking off a good debate, Andrew - whatever the shape of your ball.
An unusally snide post. But hey, it's your blog.
"I'm glad I started this one" AC
I thought I did...
Things what we have learnt:
A) rugby is of no interest to certain people.
B) rugby is of great interest to other people.
C) Some people are mildy, but not overly, interested in rugby
and, most importantly:
D) There are a lot of people deemed to be 'jumping on the bandwagon' due to England's progression through to the final of the World Cup.
The media have spotted this bandwagon and tied their banners to the side of it.
The same people who are tuning in to see England beat France are the same who would tune in to see England in the World Cup Final of Football, without having followed the team before then, or without being able to name half the team.
England have done well, but many of their 'supporters' won't stick around once the competition is finished, and will wait another four years for the World Cup to come round again.
This isn't a bad thing, but it annoys people like me (who couldn't care less about it all) because everyone else in the country is talking about it, and we feel a bit left out/bored by it all.
Oh, and finally, E) Slagging of rugby makes people react, but having a pop at the Socialist Worker is fair game...
I love blogs.
In the comments section of the previous entry, Heated, Oldnathan left this message:
"I agree with all the above. But could you post something about the bleeding Rugby World Cup Andrew? I've got something I need to get off my chest, I've got nowhere to post it and it's eating away at me."
Not wishing Oldnathan to develop something nasty, I obliged. Unfortunately, my opinion about the Rugby World Cup runs as follows: I don't give a monkey's. So I wrote that down, and went back to my work.
I'm glad it's turned into a big, long debate about rugby, and sport in general. I know that it's not only posh people that enjoy or play rugby, but then, I didn't write that. It wasn't meant to be an attack on those for whom the Rugby World Cup means a great deal (which I why I posted the fact that 12.1 million people watched the semi final on telly - at Not Going Out, we pop champagne corks about 2.6 million; at 6 Music I was happy with a couple of thousand, to put it into perspective).
You must continue to debate the Rugby World Cup. I've enjoyed reading the debate far more than I would enjoy watching a rugby match.
As for your view, The Assassin Prince, "if you've nothing good to say then say nothing" - I actually thought what I put was quite amusing in its brevity, Pardon me if it wasn't up to your exacting standards of quality. It certainly sparked a debate. Some days I write what I consider to be beautifully composed entries that get one or two comments. Other days, I write one sentence and the debate is long and furious. I like both kinds of blog entries.
As for the implication in your Josie Long quote ("when you get to the end of your life no-one is going to give you a medal and say 'well done, you enjoyed none of it"), that I am some sort of miserable cynic. This would hold a lot more water if I wasn't the sort of person who pretty much likes everything, or tends mainly to write about films/books/programmes/bands that I like.
Am I really a cynic? Is that what I've become?
NOOOO!!! You're so not a cynic, which means your breezy attitude is refreshing for those of us (like me) who are.
And, oldnathan, if your chest is burning with desire, why don't you start your own blog, where you can say exactly what you like?
Never mind all the high-level class warfare/pseudo intellectual angst/jingoistic fervour from other posters, I'm getting a bit fed up with having my social plans changed all the time.
On Saturday night for instance, I was going to go to a big street party with some French people, but then they went and cancelled it at the last minute and went home! And they'd closed off the road, put fairy lights up and everything!
The same thing happened the week before, when I was due to go off to a barbie with some Australians. I was all set to go and then I heard that someone had pissed in their barbecue, put it out, and so they'd unexpectedly flounced to the airport to catch the plane home.
Then to top it all off, that Mr Brown from down the street said he'd invite me to his election party; but now he's called that off as well.
Woss going on?
what we have learned about andrew:
he couldnt give a monkeys
(shud that have an apostrophe? and what's the origin of that phrase?)
but we already knew that from his book(s)
Definitely an apostrophe in "monkey's" (as in, I couldn't give a monkey's arse, or whatever the Old English derivation of the phrase is). There is not such thing as "a monkeys", unless in the sentence, "I couldn't give a Monkees album to the charity shop."
Oh - what? Now, you don't like The Monkees as well as rugby?! Are you trying to alienate all of your readers, Andrew?!
Incidentally I think the best thing I read in all this hoo-hah was Chris Burgess comment that 'Rugby Union is one of those sports that would probably still be the same even if they removed the ball from the game". Well said, that man.
Thanks Clair. I might build it but no one would come.
Plus I like it here. Andy-baby sets a good tone and tells us off rather well.
Some men beat some other men at rugby & I was dead chuffed.
I was grinning hugely at hearing 'Marching On Together' blasting out at Old Trafford ... oh, but you were talking about the Posh Rugby weren't you... couldn't give a monkey's about that.
I managed to avoid the start of rugby lessons at school, by playing on a soft hearted teacher's good nature. Instead, I was allowed to stay in and do art for several blissful weeks.
When I was finally forced onto a pitch I had absolutely no hope of grasping what the devil was going on: largely brief moments of far too intimate male bonding, then a smattering of confused running, usually followed by everything grinding to a halt due to some intricate rule having been broken.
I found it bemusing then and this is still largely my reaction to sport now. I wholeheartedly agree with Andrew's succinct take on the entire business. I don't give a monkey's about sport either, not to annoy or demean anyone, but simply because it doesn't elicit any excitement, or response in general, in me.
The only thing that does raise any passion in me about sport is the way that not having any interest in it, especially if you're a male, immediately brands you as a loser weirdo in the eyes of some. Get over it. You like something I don't, I like things you don't. 'Toto the Hero' is one of my all time favourite films, but I don't feel the need to walk past people's windows at three in the morning chanting its title over and over again!
Enjoy sport if you like it, just realise that the whole world around you doesn't have to join in (especially if it's forgotten its kit).
When you get to the end of your life no-one is going to give you a medal and say, "Well done, you enjoyed none of it."
I don't get why people equate cynicism with not enjoying life. People enjoy different things. Few things bug me more than people telling me I'm not enjoying myself because I'm not doing what they're doing. By most people's standards I lead just about the most boring life you can imagine. And I'm pretty cynical about the motives of just about everyone on the planet. But I'm happy.
And I can honestly say I didn't realise there was any significant sport (an oxymoron?) on this weekend until I went into work this morning.
I like sport. I like watching sport on television. In fact I increasingly find the only enjoyment television gives me is when sport is on (although I admit a weak spot for Rebus and, ahem, Rome).
This is because the performances in sport are real. I don't need convincing that the ending was realistic - I know it was. The emotions? Real as well. Brilliance, ineptitude, all real.
But the rest of TV and films? People pretending to be other people they are not - and failing to convince.
Clearly I'm part of the problem - suspending belief a little would help. The good news? There is an unending supply of music to discover and books to enjoy. And of course entertaining blogs like this for me to read and then contribute cobblers like this to.
That big rectangle of grass they bash each other up on.... waste of a good croquet lawn.
Is it just me, or is Jim Rosenthal actually Alan Partridge?
Francois?
ST
This post has been removed by the author.
Everyone's probably moved on from this now so I'll just add these amazing insights: rugby, sport in general... it's like a lot of things, the better you can relate to it and the more you know about it, the more you get out of it. Some kind of connection is needed to get past the sense that it's pointless. When it gets dull it's like when you're lying on the grass on a sunny day and the sun goes in and suddenly you're just lying on the grass for no reason. But like Keith said, it's real (or should be), and so is the occasional magic.
What is the deal with people who couldn't give monkeys about sport feeling it necessary to let everyone else know what a monkeys they couldn't give?
You need to read all the posts mate. This was all my fault and I'm very sorry.
Rugby Union is followed by people who aren't really into sport in the same way that people who like Texas (the band) aren't really into music.
Why do some pubs ban football colours and not rugby colours? I do not own a rugby top and I hate it when football clubs bring out rugby tops.
Last, last word...
BBC News Sat 20 Oct 2007: Some men have beaten some other men at rugby, now for twenty minutes of outside broadcasts and analysis ... oh by the way Iran hate us all the more and will probably blow us all up some day ... and now the rest of the sport.
When the day comes that they don't finish with the sport I'll know we really are f**ked!
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