Two Americas
At 7pm on BBC2 last night we had part two of Simon Schama's bold, ambitious, eloquent new series, The American Future, in which we follow him across the United States. In the second part, American War, the programme began at Arlington Cemetary in Virginia for Veterans Day. We saw Schama in the crowd, looking grave.
Then, at 9pm on BBC1 we had Stephen Fry In America, the comedian's bold, ambitious, eloquent new series, in which we follow him across the United States.
In the second part, Deep South, the programme began at Arlington Cemetary in Virginia for Veterans Day. We saw Fry in the crowd, looking grave.
It was, you must admit, an amazing but less than fortuitous coincidence. Two major BBC series about the same thing, at the same event, covered from different angles (Schama: all serious; Fry: all whimsical; both: in awe of the awesome power of America), using the same camera angles, broadcast on the same night. We have to assume both crews were at the same Veterans Day event, last year, Monday November 12, filming the same proud veterans in those little military McDonald's hats, against the background of the American flags. Both programmes featured the inevitable footage of the endless white headstones in the cemetary directly afterwards. Although Schama hung around for the longest, finding the grave of the son of a neighbour in New York State (where he lives), killed in Afghanistan and also a way in to his historical treatise about war in America, while Fry hopped into his cab and found somewhere a lot cheerier within about a minute and a half. I wonder if the two production companies - or indeed the august, learned presenters themselves - bumped into each other that day?
"You're filming a landmark series about America?"
"Sure am!" (Both men of course, now infected with the American accent because they love the place so much)
"Who for?"
"The BBC, of course."
"Ditto!"
"And which episode is this bit for?"
"The second one."
"Snap!"
"When's yours on?"
"We don't have a TX date yet, but sometime next year."
"Autumn schedules?"
"Possibly, it is a landmark series with an august, learned person standing in front of it."
"Ah well, best of luck, I'm sure the BBC wouldn't be mad enough to run the two programmes simultaneously!"
"God bless America!"
"God bless America's tiny little cotton socks!"
Of the two august presenters, I'd say Schama loves America the most, as he's lived there since abouit 1980, while Fry is very much a tourist, loving it in a way only a tourist can. For the record, I'm enjoying both series. Schama has the intellectual edge, but it's on BBC2. Fry's job is to keep up warm on these cold nights.
posted by Andrew Collins @ 9:20 AM
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Andrew,
They did bump into each other - Mark Lawson wrote about it last week in the Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/oct/16/television-television1
I have to admit I've found the Schama one a bit hard going from what I've seen of it so far. It's all a bit portentous - but I'll give it another try. Stephen Fry, on the other hand, is Sunday night television by numbers, however his charm pulls it through. There is a problem with time, with too much being crammed into too small a space. I swear one state was done in about 45 seconds last night and when he visited the "body farm" this pressure to fit stuff in seemed to result in no explanation being given to what the rotting bodies were there for. That the explanation came at the end of the segment as we were on the way to see a black bear in a tree felt a bit about face.
But he was spot on about College football and I'll be back for more next week.
Robert
This is the Mark Lawson in handy link form, although he only mentions them filming in Gettysburg on the same day, and at least the Gettysburg sequence came last week in Fry's, and this week's in Schama's. The Arlington bits were literally shown two hours apart! (I'm assuming everybody else here loves Mark Lawson. I love Mark Lawson.)
I love Mark Lawson too. Although he has a bit of an embarrasing laugh, but as an interviewer of 'luvvies' and 'authors' (god they can be so bloody depressing sometimes) he manages to turn what could be a dull, self-promoting interview into something that I like to listen to. Simon Mayo manages this too I think.
I was listening to an old radio show of Mark Lawsons from about 3 years ago last week and compared to his podcasts of now, he sounds more and more as if he is slowly imploding in on himself as his voice becomes more 'pinched' in the back of his throat, almost like his neck is slowly collapsing.
I imagine him curling up into a huge ball as he gets older eventually speaking with such stricture as to sound like Pinky and Perky's long lost brother.
I'm still unsure about the Stephen fry thing it seems awfuly slight, before hand he talked about getting away from the cliches about america. What happened when he went to Boston he went to harvard, to NY he talked to wiseguys, Kentucky bourbon and horses, a fan boat in miami, it'll be Jazz in new orleans, hollywood in california, microsoft in seattle.
I think more shows with a wider range of people would be better.
Oh and loose the cab what is that about rubbish interviews with people clinging to the tiny flip down chair while stephen has to talk over his shoulder.
Stephen Fry is, without exception, the celebrity - maybe even the person - I would like to meet most in the entire world.
I'm sure it'd be a disappointment, but he's just legendary. I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from giving him a very big hug though.
As a fan of Mr Fry, I have been disappointed with his series. He seems to be suffering from ADD (hey, that's another documentary he could make). Of course, it could be the producer's fault, I don't know.
The more I learn about the world, the more I've started to realise that Fry is one of those smart-alec public school geeks, a few of which I knew at uni. They can remember and recite all sorts of useless facts and figures but don't truly understand anything. If you've ever watched QI and they've been talking about a subject that you are knowledgable about, you may understand what I mean. John Sessions will say something that sounds awfully clever, Fry will snigger, the audience will laugh and some of those 'playing along at home' will be rolling their eyes.
Still, bloody clever chap though eh?
There seems to be a rash of personality-drive travel docs these days, but I don't think any will beat the ones I watched as a teenager - Clive James' Postcards from.. Now there's a guy who got the perfect balance between insight and humour. I've been watching some of his old shows.. you don't get writing like that on TV anymore.
Who doesn't love Mark Lawson? Idiots, that's who. But what I love more is to say his name in a Mark Lawson voice. Try it, it's fun.
I think we should show a little respect and use his proper name, Me Mark Lawson.
For me the difference between Fry and Schama is that Simon's enthusiam is infectious, whereas Stephen's isn't.
I feel much more of a participant in Schama's programmes whereas with Fry's I feel am merely an observer.
I haven't been able to see either of these programs unfortunately, but I did see Fry's documentary on the printing press which was interesting but didn't make me want to get up and go and find out more. Whereas just the one episode of Schama's 'Art History' series had me scrambling for books on Caravagio and Turner.
That is the difference between a presenter who 'knows his stuff' and one who just 'knows stuff'.
I wasn't convinced by the "wiseguys" visited by Stephen Fry in New York City, especially as one of them was wearing a Godfather t-shirt. They seemed like Italian-American Ali G equivalents. If any remaining Sopranos were watching they'd have been in hysterics.
Don't you think the travelogue format has become tired and predictably dull and pedestrian? Palin (particularly in E Europe), Griff Rhys Jones and now the sainted Sir Stephen. All doing the same kind of things, breezing through a country, in an affable unchallenging way, with set ups the researchers have diligently organised - a bit of quirky, folksy, chuck in a bit of history but nothing too challenging. Pass me the pipe and slippers, while I doze gently in front of them, warm and comfy tv for a Sunday night in front of the fire, a few chuckles as our true English gents show us just how civil and wryly amusing we are abroad. Lovely. Pack the butterfly nets, Alice, I must venture forth myself.
While you are absolutely right, Maceasy - there is always something of the old colonial about British travelolgues - except for Bruce Parry's, of course - as television, on any night of the weekm it still all boils down to the likeability of the host. And Stephen Fry is just plain likeable. Unless you don't like him. I like the way he's ungainly and sweaty and middle-aged. Paul Merton, too - perspiring his ungainly arse off in India.
I think their itinerary is too highly scheduled for their personalities to shine out. The same happened with Robbie Coltrane travelling the B-roads of Britain. "All that "I get to try my hand at making the local cheese" when really I'd rather see Robbie/Stephen/whoever just chatting entertainingly with locals. The best bit of Fry's underwhelming series so far was in the casino, when all the old dears were cooing over this English gent in their midst.
Palin's travels originally had a bit more purpose and urgency to them - moving on was the main focus - but recently the whole genre has become too diluted and banal.
Thou shalt not question Stephen Fry...
PS Robert, there was a programme about the body farm on Channel 5, unsurprisingly called "The Body Farm". I've seen it a few times so if you watch long enough, a repeat should be along shortly, probably sandwiched by a repeat of CSI and an episode of The Real CSI.
Deb Holt
I agree with Nick White about the speed of the Stephen Fry series, I felt he'd have been happier hanging around for a bit longer and perhaps the viewers might have got more of a feel for the place too, it was just so rushed and scheduled, it lost some appeal.
As for the body farm, I had nightmares about the body in the bin even though I deliberately didn't watch that bit. I wasn't sure why he visited there, I preferred the whisky factory.
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