Idiots have human rights, too
Help! Help! I'm getting mixed signals! I'm confused! My hero - and close personal friend since meeting her at the CNN Election Party - Shami Chakrabarti is backing my nemesis Jon Gaunt, using her status as director of Liberty to demand his reinstatement at TalkSport, despite his use of the word "Nazi". I thought I was a woolly liberal, but Shami makes me look like an occasional Daily Mail book reviewer.This is from Liberty's press release:
- Sacked "shock jock" Jon Gaunt today welcomed the support of human rights group Liberty in his legal battle against TalkSport
- Gaunt is bringing the legal challenge after his contract as a freelance presenter with the station was terminated on 19 November, two weeks after he called a Redbridge Council representative a "Nazi", a "Health Nazi" and an "ignorant pig" during an on-air discussion about the Council's ban on placing vulnerable children with foster parents who smoke. Gaunt admits his emotions ran high during the interview because as a child he spent two months in care following the sudden death of his mother.
- Chakrabarti said, "As someone who has been on the receiving end of Jon Gaunt's blunt polemic in print and on the radio, I believe that the airwaves of a great democracy would be the poorer for his absence. I urge you to reinstate Mr Gaunt's programme without delay and have offered him support in the unlikely and unfortunate event that recourse to the Human Rights Act proves necessary."
I don't think it's very clever or becoming or dignified to call a councillor names on-air when the careful logic of your argument fails to convince him, but equally, I don't actually think we should be frightened to use the word "Nazi". It is, after all, a valid word, not a term of abuse. I grew up with Rik Mayall calling people a "fascist", and if anything, it helped educate me. I'm more bothered by the crowd-pleasing, kneejerk laziness of the term "health Nazi" - and laziness is not a sackable offence. The whole concept of a "health Nazi" is deeply flawed. It's like the suffix "on acid": utterly meaningless unless you really mean that the thing you are describing is like another thing except after the effects of a hallucinogenic substance which you probably haven't even taken. A "health Nazi" must be someone who uses the tactics of the Nazis to promote health - try as you might, you will not be able to see this comparison through, even if you replace the word "health" with "racial purity" or "anti-Semitism". But it doesn't pay for someone like Jon Gaunt to think twice. It would unravel everything he does.
He lives in a black and white world. Or at least, he did.
I do believe in free speech, even the free speech of idiots. But surely he doesn't deserve the endorsement of my hero Shami Chakrabarti. She's too good for him, and must have more pressing cases of human rights to fight than a man who called her "the most dangerous woman in Britain" in his column. Why? Because she believes in liberty, and he believes in making "evil" people do "the Saddam shuffle", which is his funny joke phrase for "hanging," a practice we stopped in this country in 1965.
Maybe she is the messiah. Maybe Gaunt will repent. Maybe I should stop worrying about it.
posted by Andrew Collins @ 11:49 AM
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You probably already knew this, but to muddy the waters even further, it seems that the Nazis literally were staunchly anti-smoking, running what is supposed to be the first government-directed public anti-tobacco campaign. At least according to wikipedia. So at some confusing level or another, it's not particularly incorrect to use them as a comparison to some other stern anti-smoking beaureaucrats. Or is it? I guess the wider question is whether it's still appropriate to.
"On acid" seems to be taken from a very funny sketch which your colleague did with Mr Lee in the 1990s. Metablogging, that's what it is.
As a Jew speaking, but not speaking as a Jew, I think Gaunty had every right to Nazify the councillor in context of the care (as forediscussed passim) but the conurbations and connotations, coupled with bad timing, made it inevitable that TalkSport would sack him. For Mrs Chakrabati to fight the Gaunt fight is bold, but I'm sure with events in Mumbai rearing their head, Gaunt's case will be a footnote in 2008.
PS Very much enjoy the podcast, and the disco mix of Lion Man.
PPS Having entered the National Library of Scotland for the first time this week, I sympathise with your (Mitford-seeking?) exploits in Euston.
PPPS Oswald Mosley was expelled from Merchant Taylors for being a "f---ing idiot", the school of which I am an alumnus.
PPPPS (I sound like Adrian Mole now) Loved your trilogy of books much more than your talking-head work.
Andy - I'd like to think that in some way she's doing it for that great, holier than thou feeling we can get when we rise above the situation and help someone who has wronged us.
I see as analogous to this situation:
You're driving along happily when a twat of a boy racer drives up behind you, dangerously tail-gates you, overtakes you at great speed, flips you the bird, and speeds off at 30 mph over the speed limit.
Further down the road you see his car in a ditch, and you're the first one at the scene.
Whilst part of you may want to drive past and leave him to it, how satisfying would it be to stop, open the door and say "Need any help mate? Shall I call an ambulance for you?"
Sometimes there is justification for a certain amount of smugness.
The upshot of this analogy is: Jon Gaunt is a twat.
It's a canny PR move to get her charity recognised more widely, I'd imagine. Good luck to her on that. I admire her open-mindedness. And she has cool hair.
But I still feel she should ditch the Kaiser Chiefs records.
Is the whole point Chakrabarti's making not that we should reinstate him and stop worrying about it? Not that he should be vindicated, just that we should move on and use the energy and resources that are being wasted on jumping up and down, about something that has been frankly misinterpreted on purpose, on things that are actually bad and evil in this world.
That's not to condone people being rude and idiotic, just that maybe it needs to be put in perspective.
Andrew, I heard yesterday that you and Richard are doing a Christmas Special podcast with Jupitus and Wilding -- is this true?
Am I the only one who is concerned that Herring and Jupitus seem to have become a bit close of late?
We are indeed planning a four-way Christmas podcast with Phill and Phil, at their place, and by their rules - we'll be putting the call out for suggested questions to put in the hat on today's podcast.
We'll try and have something out every week over Christmas by pre-recording, but Richard is going away, and I am desperate for a week off.
I agree with Stephen and his boy racer analogy. Chakrabarti's offer of help is the ultimate diss for a man who has previously been such a staunch critic of her organisation, and of human rights in general. Hopefully, her support will induce a state of confusion in Gaunty that will either open his mind a bit, or cause his bloated head to explode in a messy shower of skull fragments, ignorance, and lard.
If this were anyone else, I'd probably think that sacking was an overreaction for a fairly minor faux-pas, but Jon Gaunt has acted like such a colossal cunt for so long that my usual rationalism doesn't apply. For years now, I've put up with him riling up the raging ignorami with long, bawling, factually-sparse rants that are far more offensive than the "Nazi" comment, and it's a relief that - even briefly - he's shut his big, stupid mouth.
Robert Kilroy Silk's tirade against the entire Arab world a few years ago raised valid questions about freedom of speech and censorship, and whether a person should be allowed to publish their personal opinions in the media, however wrong those opinions might be. Yet my thoughts on this were summed up by one poster on NotBBC who countered with "Yeah. Absolutely. But fuck it though, it's Kilroy."
I hope that Phill and Phil will be speaking into proper grown up microphones, and you and Rich will be using the internal microphone on your mac.
That is as it must be shall!
I for one would encourage you both to take a break over Christmas and have no podcast. Not that I wouldn't like a podcast of course, but I'm sure we'd all rather you were well rested and not feeling any pressure to 'squeeze one out', as it were.
The benefit of being your own bosses and going it alone is that you get to set the schedule. Take advantage of that.
Well I'll look forward to that.
Incidentally, I just re-edited the wiki page to get the episode guide back: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collings_and_Herrin_(podcast)
It appears a Wiki-Nazi called Diez keeps removing content. I urge listeners to battle this cretin whenever he rears his ugly curmudgeonly face -- he's a fucking idiot. I can't see any real reason for the episode guide not to be included on the page.
Man that annoys me. I put in half an hour updating the episode guide last week to include everything up to episode 39.
Why is it being uncluded?
Diez justifies the removal of the episode guide by saying it's all there on a linked site (the podcast site on the British Comedy Guide).
I don't know enough about the Wikipedia rules and guidelines to know if he's right, but he looks like he knows what he's doing.
I can't see what you see in Shami Chakrabarti. I think she's a sanctimonious old windbag. But then I've never met her. I'm sure she's charm itself in the flesh.
I'd be interested to know why you think Chakrabarti is a hypocrite. All that the recent attacks on her amount to so far are snidey comments about her height or the fact that she isn't interesting or flashy enough (as in the Times). If she really was saying one thing and doing another I kind of think they would have found the dirt by now.
Penry
I think this is a fine move by the non-windbag Shami (I would suggest that she is quite eloquent in and out of the flesh). It shows Gaunt and his fans that the point is you stand up for what is right, regardless of whether you like or agree with the person wronged. It's a version of the Chomsky point about freedom of speech: you either agree with freedom of speech or you don't - if you start saying "you are free to say anything you like unless I don't agree with it / find you offensive" then you don't agree with freedom of speech.
It is a good PR move, and she is at least in part in the PR business, as it might win sympathy from some sections of the population that previously agreed with Gaunt on the matter.
Furthermore, please don't feel obliged to produce a weekly podcast over Christmas. You're allowed a bit of a break. We all agree, don't we?
Peter
The wikipedia problem is probably that most of the descriptions are copy and pasted from the website. They're tough on any kind of plagiarism (even if things are copied with permission).
If somebody could completely re-word them all, the argument for keeping them will be much stronger. That's not to say the edit war won't wage on forever...
Basically wikipedia is one big argument.
Peter - just to be clear, I didn't intend 'PR move' to be a negative thing. Unlike Charlie Brooker (and indeed Mr Herring) I don't see it as a purely evil thing to think intelligently about how the world sees a product.
Screenwipe was a Bill Hicks gag stretched out for half an hour, I felt.
Anyway - carry on, just ignore me, etc...
Sorry - I meant Joyfeed.
*packs in blog commenting for the day*
I think it's an absolute genius move by the Shamster. Bring Gaunty back and invoke the Human Rights Act and it might leave him fatally wounded in some way. He'll be like an injured tiger, even more aggressive than normal for a while, just to prove that his prolier than thou credentials are still intact. But late at night, as he stares into the abyss of existence, smoking a fag, will he wonder "am I always right about everything? Might I perchance be wrong... about something?" An a little bitter tear with roll down his ruggedly handsome face.
Poor poor Gaunty. I wonder if he's related to Richard II - he came to a sorry end.
No maybe about it, Andy. You should DEFINITELY stop worrying about it...
Doughboy -- no you're thinking of John of Gaunt!
I found a brilliant Oscar Wilde quote today that summed up what I was trying to say earlier about Chakrabarti and Gaunt: "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
I've said it before and - since everyone else is at it - I'll say it again: if you're being paid to talk then you're bound by your contract while you're doing it and freedom of speech doesn't apply. This is nothing to do with liberty; it's about TalkSport not wanting to employ someone who uses their radio station to call people Nazis when they aren't Nazis. That, surely, is their right. Gaunt can say what the fuck he likes in his own time and using his own means. That's his freedom of speech right there.
Rik Mayall calling people fascists was a joke at his own character's expense; Gaunt wasn't joking. Nazi is a valid word but when it's inappropriately applied surely it is very much an extreme term of abuse. If anything, I think we do liberty and freedom of speech a huge disservice when we help twats like Gaunt cheapen the meaning and the implications of such a powerful word.
This is not about ultimate disses, PR, canniness, holier-than-thou-ness, being a messiah or samaritan, rising above anything or being an uber-lefty. Anyone who has every had a conversation with the woman knows that she is way too intelligent and professional for that. It is about upholding the tenets upon which our society is based - the things in which both right and left-leaning folks need in order for us to have civilisation instead of anarchy. To have laws which work for all of us. She is bloody good at her job and she's just doing her job. Not for Gaunty, but for all of us. She's ebing a proper grown-up, is all, unlike the rest of us these days who seem to act like 12-year olds in the bodies of grown ups.
Anna
I agree. With everybody.
good on liberty, and good on shami. gaunt may be a right wing tool but he has a right to his opinion, and whether we agree with it or not, he has the legal right to express it.
good to see liberty embracing the sentiments of voltaire. also good to see more of shami, she a fox. :)
the problem is, gaunt probably hates liberty - which make this even more sweet.
jon gaunt wasn't really calling the guy a nazi and we all know that. he was using a metaphor to describe the man's behaviour. the thing is who decides that this story is one worth pushing and hounding gaunt out of his job? the same people that got russell brand sacked? wheels within wheels.
How unsettling. Is there a shortage of foster parents? Is that the issue that's got them wound up?
Today I spent several hours in the 'Taking Liberties' exhibition at the British Library. It is EXCELLENT, anyone in London should definitely try and see it. There's quite a lot of 'the Shamster', incidentally, in the rolling videos, alongside Peter Hitchens who seems to be agreeing with her and sounding atypically (or is it untypically?) sane.
While I agree that this is a hugely confusing issue for a dyed-in-the-wool liberal such as myself, there's a much more pressing issue at stake for me at the moment which has bugged me since I walked past a crane in Bristol harbour on the way to work:
How does anti-climb paint work? How does the application of paint actually stop you from physically climbing up a structure? It doesn't seem to have a huge amount of slipperyness or lack of friction, so I can't see how this works. I know some clever bod on this blog must know, as it's causing me much more consternation than the latest saga of Gauntgate (now there's a lazy knee-jerk label for you).
P.s. - since there's a lot of Wire fans about on this blog, I would like to hold a similar black armband-moment in memory of The Shield, which ended on Tuesday. If the Wire was 100%, then The Shield was near enough 99% of it but without much of the critical praising in it's later years (more of a case of "is that still going?"). Any Wireistas who aren't familar should start on this immediately as it's a similarly great story which has season and indeed, series-long story arcs which never lose their quality.
I think his sacking is symptomatic of the recent trend to convert our media outlets into a bland morasses of tedium where no one is allowed to have a strong opinion a personality or say anything remotely controversial.
See Talksports sacking of James Whale and the stupid "controversy" stirred up by Ross and Brand.
I think Ofcom are the modern day equivalent of the Nazis.
You may not like John Gaunt (I don't, he is a fat idiot) but at least he has something stimulating to say.
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