Shelfish bastards
If users of the British Library have forgotten their manners, is civilisation actually doomed?
In the Greek myth, King Midas dissed Apollo's flute-playing and was cursed with donkey's ears, which he hid under a hat. The king's barber, alone in knowing his secret, was sworn to secrecy. Dying to tell someone, he chose instead to unburden himself by shouting his secret into a hole in the ground. I know this because Stephen Fry used it as preamble on a recent "podgram" (or podcast) before essaying a foul-mouthed diatribe against the tyranny of broadcasting compliance: "Compliance with what? Compliance with stupidity? Compliance with being a moron? Compliance with making this country a shithole?" (Go for it, Stephen.)
I would normally yell the following rant into a hole, too, but a New Year is almost upon us, and it might help to share. Also, what is a blog if not a hole in the ground? To set the scene: I write, as ever now, from the British Library in London, that imperious redbrick fount wherein reside two copies of Magna Carta, the ship's log of HMS Victory and a handwritten draft of Yesterday. A number of brogue-wearers like historian Tristram Hunt have bemoaned the "pubescent histrionics" of the undergraduates now permitted to nick the best seats in the reading rooms, but bollocks to the protectionists, it's a great big library for everybody. And it's not as if it has become a lawless, traffic-cone-festooned free-for-all; rules still apply. No bags, coats, umbrellas, food, scalpels or pens can be taken into the reading rooms; thus, permitted items (laptops, notebooks, pencils, Gonks) must be carried in a supplied, reusable transparent British Library bag, which are neatly stacked each morning in large in-trays in the locker room. You've got to have a system.
However, come the end of the day, these bags are not neatly re-stacked in the trays; a substantial number are instead screwed up and chucked in a pile, thus destroying the very fabric of civilisation - and creating a mess for somebody else to tidy up. It takes almost zero effort to pat one's used bag flat and lay it down, but each day, a cavalier minority opt not to trouble themselves, perhaps assuming their mums, or the nanny, will be along later. This fuck-you attitude runs counter to the knowledge economy of the institution - "where great minds meet," to quote the posters - how can those so clever simultaneously be so ignorant?
They are the equivalent of gym members who leave wet towels on the floor or benches in the changing room - although in the defence of such linen louts, I expect they have been rendered insensible by performance-enhancing drugs or narcissistic loneliness. They might have strained a muscle in their brain. Perhaps they simply have more money than sense. But since eligibility for a British Library Reader's Pass cuts across every colour, class and tax bracket, I expect more from its fortunate bearer. It is but a short step to social breakdown, as is - my obligatory bugbear - caring enough to give to charity shops but not enough to do so during opening hours. As I have ranted into a hole before: surely it is magnanimous enough to dump a bin bag of skirts, a lampshade and a Blockbusters board game in a puddle of dog urine outside? Do these passive-aggressive philanthropists seek sadistic thrill from the thought of elderly volunteers spending Monday morning sifting through damp rubbish in the street?
In January, as regular readers will remember, I drew up my own Manners Manifesto and posted it on here, like some digital equivalent of Martin Luther nailing his Ninety-Five Theses to the church door in 1517. While Luther diced with excommunication in calling for reform of the Catholic church, I risked sounding like a Daily Mail columnist, urging people to remember the words of Derek Batey on Mr & Mrs: "Be nice to each other." To save you looking it up, the basic tenets of my Manifesto remain unchanged: smile; say please and thank you (for younger readers: "I'd like a grande decaff soya latte please. Thank you"); be friendly to strangers; help old people; give to the homeless (there's a recession on: it could be you); be polite as you close the front door to Jehovah's Witnesses (even if one of them is Prince); never swear at people on the other end of helplines; talk to people at the check-out; place litter in the bins provided, even the cellophane off cigarette packets and free, unwanted copies of Shortlist.
To help achieve my Utopian dream, I suggest you steer clear of the library or gym and go ice skating (it is, after all, the time of year). Witness in that rink a perfect microcosm of polite society: hundreds of spatially aware citizens, heading in the same direction, many on their arses but still happy and safe. Is it too much to ask that we apply the same empathy toward coexistence on non-slippery surfaces? Or, as Fry predicts, must we willingly comply with making this country a shithole?
posted by Andrew Collins @ 12:47 PM
39 Comments
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39 Comments:
I agree with you about the manners thing.
A while ago I was walking on the pavement (a narrow pavement) and coming the other way was a teen mum and two teen boys pushing a buggy.
I did what I thought was the polite thing and stepped into the road so they could stay on the pavement. As I walked away I heard the girl say to the boys something about me being a freak.
It made me feel quite old and fuddy-duddyish even though I'm 27.
Leaving crap outside charity shops is worse than you think. Where I lived in Manchester - Chorlton - it was very "right on" and people liked to give to the charity shops. But, like you say, it was too much effort to go when they are open. So the piles on a Sunday night were huge. But the shops there have a sign in the window saying that they only accept donations handed over inside the shop. So all that stuff outside the shops is just thrown away. What they're actually doing is getting elderly volunteers to take their wet rubbish to the tip for them. I bet they still tell everyone how they "support" Oxfam though.
Andrew, you're a hero of our time. I can just imagine you earthed soundly at the door to the library, refusing entry to those with disrespect in their shifty eyes. Maybe you should wear a cape. We'd call you Andrew The Respector!
I’ve always inadvertently followed Andrew’s manifesto and feel there’s nothing worse than rudeness and bad manners (OK, there are lots of things). However, in my experience, it’s the older generation that are more likely to be offenders. Many, a time I’ve held a door open or stepped aside for a senior citizen to receive absolutely no thanks or acknowledgement while younger people, and even youths (some with hoods), have expressed gratitude. If only we lived in Bill & Ted’s utopian future. Be excellent to each another.
Perhaps I am a churl - oh, alright, I AM a churl - but my manners are impeccable, but if they are not recpirocated as they ought to be, I actually turn quite nasty. So if you hear a woman with dark hair and a manky fake fur wish a shop assistant a Merry Christmas on completing her purchases, and getting zero response, be prepared for a chorus of 'Blimey, you're rude's'. I am the same with drivers who refuse to acknowledge that I have let them into a queue, my response being a shouted 'THANKS VERY MUCH! UP YOURS!'. This all means that if I was Drywipecat, I'd have been found in a gutter, beaten up by teenage parents after I'd said 'A thank-you would have been nice'.
I fear this is not part of the Manners Manifesto.
Nobody has to do anything for themselves. Parents seem to do everything, including thinking, for their kids until they're well into their 20s. What good does that do them? It teaches then they don't have to be considerate, you just look after your fun and someone else picks up the pieces. It teaches them that the purpose of parents, teachers, curators is to deal with their needs. So why would they consider neatly folding a bag for?
Weren't like that in my day and I'm not very old.
Yes to most of your manifesto, bar two things - don't give money to the homeless. Give the money to homeless charities like Shelter or Crisis. If you give money to a homeless, they will more than likely spend it on booze or drugs, which means you are enabling them to kill themselves quickly or slowly, and not look to get out of their situation - something the charities provide assistance with in terms of counselling, elements of rehab, skilling/training and housing. A quid to a homeless is a quid to continuing to keep them homeless. Give a man a fish and he'll sell it to booze, teach a man to fish and he can eat and buy his own booze. Or something like that. I have worked with homeless people for a vast number of years.
And don't go ice skating. Really. Last year I went to the Tower of London and it was full of testosteroned city boys whizzing and flailing round like they got extra bonuses for skating over people's fingers, and I saw a very elegant lady, dressed for the part, al floaty, and able to do nice turns and leg lifts, and one watery skid later and I was looking down at her asking if that was her wrist bone poking through the back of her hand at a jaunty angle. It was. Of course I used my manners and got her some help and said soothing things while she wailed in agony. And that was a rink with proper plastic, solid boots. Unlike Sandringham Christmas skating which has poxy fabric boots which are like skating in loose knitting. Tell Stephen Fry. It's a fast-track to leg braces.
Oh - and don't use plastic carrier bags. And take up knitting and cake baking instead of skating.
Anna
I like your forthright manner, Anna. I have not worked with the homeless so bow to your experience, but it's difficult not to feel like a top-hatted bastard when one walks past a man in a sleeping bag on the pavement as you swoosh past to your warm home. (Actually, I tend only to give money to ones with dogs, but that's just me, and you've got to have a system.)
In general, I have found ice-skating to be a reassuring exercise in spatial awareness, but hey, City boys used to ruin everything, didn't they? Not any more, though.
You're angrier and more cynical than me, and for that I salute you.
I agree almost totally, apart from the talking to checkout people thing. While I will always recriprocate a "hello" if it's offered and smile and say my Ps and Qs, I have absolutly no wish to get bogged down in midless chitter chatter which will result in a) me having to remove and replace my headphones around 40 times and b) just slow the whole process down. Even when I was a till bird myself, I hated it when people talked to me, or worse, made me interact with their children. "I'm a surly teen!" I wanted to yell. "Leave me be!"
You and Herrin seem to be unwittingly forming some kind of public politeness committee (as evidenced by his similar rant a few days ago) Maybe you could be co-Tsars. Like muddled co-stars!
It's good that people like you exist Andrew, and you're not alone, but in the main I think people just don't care enough about anything but themselves anymore. Until that changes, we're all fucked.
I used to smoke (up until last week), so I always gave the homeless people I saw a cigarette.
I haven't seen any homeless people since I gave up smoking, so Lord knows what I'll do now.
I admire the manners manifesto, but it's doomed. I have a feeling you all know it's doomed, but persist to reassure yourselves things were once better, when they were only marginally so.
But on a positive note, as someone who is usually a cyclist but learnt to drive last year - can I add a few good things from the world of transport that I wasn't aware used to happen, but that reflect well on the nation's manners:
Buses - when people get off at their stop 80% say thanks to the driver. I never used to do that.
Buses in London - I'm sure every driver hates them - but when you let them pull out in front of you (I'm not sure you have that much choice, but...) they give you that lovely little: right, left, right indicator light *thank you*. That right cheers me up.
Similarly - car drivers - two drivers meet - invariably the other car flashes its lights or they wave you through - and you give them a little wave of thanks.
I wave back at cars that wait for me when I'm on my bike now. It's just nice. The whole road system is built on people agreeing to drive on the left and wait at lights - and while there are lots of individual examples to make you angry - they make you angry cos most of the time people do the right thing.
(Note: I'm not normally positive & I'm not generally pro-car. Not sure what happened here.)
Andrew,
As a former shop assistant who has moved onto more glorious things, I have to say I was always pleased when someone took the time to chat. It made the job at least a little interesting.
People who play music on trains - that really irks me, and when you tell them politely to turn it off. If there's going to be some sort of politeness cult, that needs to be a priority!
Always dreadful music too, which is why I can never understand why they want to advertise their awful taste.
Thanks.
I skimmed some of these comments as it was getting worryingly near to reading the a thread on the 'Have Your Say' section of the BBC.
As to the wet towels fixation you seem to have Andrew, I too find this rather sad that people cannot think to dispose of them appropriately. However you have two choices here as I see it, you can simply take your own towel and moan and grumble and get all het up about something you have no control over. Rise above it Andrew.
I simply take my towel and gather all the other towels up as well and dispose of them all myself.
In this case I feel I have achieved a few things; one is that I have saved the poor cleaner from having to do an unnecessary task and thankless task. I have also in the past had comment from people in the changing room asking me what on earth I was doing, to which I simply explained that I was just 'helping to tidy up for those that couldn't manage it themselves', this then 'educates' those in the changing room or at least gets them to 'think' about it if nothing else by drawing attention to it. Finally I actually get a sense of well being from making the world a slightly tidier and 'pleasanter' place to be in.
There has been an occasion when I have done this and have had a thank you from one of the staff members. Not that I do it because I want thanks I do it because it is what I would want someone to do for me.
To all those that complain about the women that complain when you open doors for them, or those that don't say thank you when you give up a seat. Don't worry about it. if you are simply opening a door for someone to get thanks, then the action is meaningless - they didn't 'ask' you to open it. So don't 'expect' thanks.
Yes it would be nice if everyone had good manners, but they don't.
But don't get too het up about it.
So to 'Clair' I think your response is unnecessary and actually as bad-mannered as the fools that know no better.
I suspect I'm worse than the people who leave their BL bags in a mess. I take mine home with me. I still have one with the old logo on it. They're wonderfully sturdy, and they advertise the existence of a glorious institution, although I'm not sure how stuffing them full of Lidl baked beans affects the, er, brand message.
On a completely unrelated topic...
I can't wait to see how the Daily Mail react to the latest BBC "outrage" after Chris Moyles made some (completely misinterpreted - and I heard the show so can say that) comments about Polish people.
I can imagine the moral dilemma they're facing - on the one hand it's a chance to have another pop at the Beeb, on the other they probably (truly) believe what he was (sarcastically) saying. I bet there is some hand wringing going on right now...
For the record, I have also picked up wet towels and put them in the bin provided in the gym. It's not the towels that bother me, it's the attitude. You say, "Don't get het up about it." I don't walk around in a constant fit of rage about it. I worry about the state of people's manners but I don't let it eat me up inside. I wrote about it my blog because that seems like a very sensible and positive thing to do with my disappointment.
That's what it is: disappointment. Some people - not all - disappoint me.
Louis, I think taking the British Library bag away and reusing it is perfectly reasonable.
As long as Chris Moyles didn't say that Polish people were "like asbestos", as George Lamb did about "gypsies" on 6 Music.
Andrew how do you know its the 'attitude'? You are making an assumption here. How do you knwo that people don't actually know to take their own towels? Do you have signs? I don't in my gym. I think you'd be surprised about how many think that this is the norm. Also maybe someone was in a rush?
We're only human. Don't get too dissappointed.
Just make sure you don't become like them. As long as you know the difference you can still make the world a better place by example.
At least that is how I see it.
I haven't heard the Stephen Fry podcast. What is broadcasting compliance? Is it something vaguely related to politeness?
I posted something recently about our increasingly infantile adult population. All you can do is to try to treat people as you'd like them to treat you (I know, I'm quite the philosopher). If they throw it back in your face then so be it - righteous indignation has its own rewards. I hope.
I thoroughly agree with your manifesto, Andrew -
although I do wonder where we stand on buying the Big Issue, which I do regularly as opposed to just giving money to the homeless. Is it allowable, or am I just giving them cash for misuse? Because I spend four hours a day getting to and from work and I like to vary my reading material, as well as feeling less like a "top-hatted bastard" when I do it! I would hate it if something which I do to help is actually messing people up.
Anyway, in my experience, the key to the Great British Public is 'kill them with kindness' - however rude the person, I turn up the sweetness. I get them in the end, and if I don't, I hope I leave them wondering why I saw fit to be so full-on. Maybe next time, they'll be nicer to one of you...
Hello Andrew,
Can I add something to your list for Londoners? When on the tube, help people out.
It's amazing how shocked lost people are when a stranger comes up and helps them understand the tube system or offers to help carry their luggage up a flight of stairs. I like to think that every visitor who experiences that thinks a little bit better of Britain when they leave.
Sam
I'm going to take umbrage (good word, not used enough) with 'justrestingmyeyes' here. I also worked on a checkout when I was a surly teen and a 9-hour slog on a busy Saturday of non-stop scan and pack was always brightened (albeit only slightly) by someone taking the time to say a bit more than 'hello.' I'm not saying you should ask their life story but just a quick "busy today?" or "what time do you finish?" can normally kickstart a conversation.
Incidentally, you say you don't like "having to remove and replace my headphones around 40 times." Well, you're interacting with another human being, you should be courteous enough not to have headphones in in the first place!
Hey Andrew
It is 9pm in Melbourne Australia on Friday 5 December and your podcast with Richard (number 41) is nowehere to be found!
In the words on Mr Gaye, 'What's going on?'
Melbourne Mike
Mike - and anyone else who's wondering where the podcast is - we're recording it later this afternoon, due to work overload for both of us.
Joe: I agree with you - I always take my iPod earpieces out when entering a shop, even if I'm not going to interact with anyone. iPods on the street, on public transport, on train platforms, fine, but not inside. That's my own personal rule. If I was at a checkout and a customer came through with earphones in, I'd feel pretty shabbily treated, I think.
Dave, treating others as you would like to be treated is of course wrong, you should treat them how you imagine they would like to be treated. Clearly, Jesus was an fucking idiot.
P.S. Andrew I am young and I always say 'please' and 'thank you'.
I don't see anything wrong with simply having earphones in when at the checkout, as long as the iPod is switched off. It's less hassle to turn it off, leaving the earphones in, and then turn it on again when finished, than it is to take them out and stuff them in my pocket and so on. But I do agree that actually listening to them while dealing with the checkout person is very rude.
Personally I absolutely despair of the way people in this country treat each other in public, largely because anti-social behaviour seems to be more prevalent than it used to be (and I'm only 32 for heaven's sake). People have already mentioned people who play loud music on public transport. What I find even worse than this is people who talk and laugh in the cinema. When I first came to London, about seven years ago, I don't think this ever happened. I went to the cinema quite often and it was always fine. But over the last few years, this sort of thing has become so common that now it seems to be the norm. I simply do not go to the cinema any more, because I don't see why I should pay so much money just to have the film ruined, or to sit in a state of constant agitation that at some point it might get ruined. It may not seem like a very important thing, but it's symptomatic of the way that many people seem to think now, which is that if it is their *right* to do something, that is all that matters. It doesn't occur to them that one may have the *right* to do something but it still be morally better not to exercise that right. I asked the woman who was ruining Hancock (or was it Cloverfield?): "Could you be quiet please?" and she retorted: "No, because I paid my money!" That seems to be how so many people in this country behave: it's not simply a matter of not caring about other people; it's a matter of aggressive assertion of one's own "rights" and sod anyone else. On that view, to ask someone to modify their behaviour for the sake of someone else is to make a kind of personal challenge to them. I find this very depressing indeed.
There is one, and only one, way in which Londoners seem to be politer than people in other places, and that's when it comes to getting on the Tube. Most people do actually wait for people to get off before getting on. I used to live in Singapore, where everyone was much politer and more thoughtful to other people, except in this one respect. The moment the train doors open there, everyone literally shoves their way on, ignoring the people who are trying to get off, and actually preventing them from doing so.
I find it hard to let the 'disappointment' I feel wash over me, I'm afraid. A few weeks ago I was on a train when a man got on who was walking with the help of crutches. A lad of about twelve, who was sitting nearby, looked up from his copy of 'Zoo' and promptly stood up to give the man his seat. He was immediately pulled back down again by his delightful Mum, with the words "Nah, don't bother, there's seats in the next carriage, he'll get one there." She did not even add "but nice that you wanted to help".
What hope is there? No amount of 'modelling' good behaviour is going to help that kid, when he goes home every night to that Mum.
Sorry, I'm on a teeny screen here and I lost who said what, but in response to the signs about towels thing, surely the point is not to be told what to do, but to always have a consideration to do the nice thing, to be aware of others, to not cause disruption or discomfort to others, to acknowledge when someone has gone out of their way to help, to share a smile with a stranger because it's nice. Etc etc. It should be instinctive, it should be entirely without thought and it shouldn't require rules. I'm completely with Andrew on his manifesto, there's things that are particularly irksome and rantworthy, and it's good to make people think about what they do, but if the average person can't be polite and considerate without being specifically told what to do at every juncture, then that is very sad.
Never mind taking ear phones out - when did it become acceptable to talk on a mobile whilst paying for goods? Is anyone really that busy that they can't call the person back whilst they pack shopping or order a coffee. Makes a mockery of a 'classless' society when people treat service staff as less than human.
Joe, Andrew, JonathanCR: Oh, Lord. Well, in no way do I wish to make anyone feel shabbily treated. I guess I am just projecting my own absolute loathing of small talk on those around me, and I feel rightly chastised now. I would point out that just by listening to an iPod doesn't mean I don't interact with the till person, for example, I will still smile and respond correctly at the functional questions of clubcard ownership and bag packing ability, just that I can happily do without the 30 second chatterage, mostly because I can never think of anything to say and I end up coming across as more rude than if I hadn't embarked on the conversation in the first place.
I just *hate* small talk. Hate it. I am absolutely no good at it. My mind goes completely and utterly blank.
I'm sorry though. I feel rotten now if it's any consolation.
Andrew, I see that BBC Radio does a podcast that claims
The best new music from across Northamptonshire ...and beyond.
!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/weekender/
I wonder if Nathan J's Lion Man ft RH will be played?
This week Andrew rallies against the important issues of the day such as people not flattening their plastic bags in the library.
Next week he tackles the growing threat of Islamic terrorism and what fiscal stimulus is required to avert global recession.
He can only deal with one crisis at a time people.
As someone who used to work in a pub many years ago, I always take my empties back to the bar if I'm going that way anyway. It's not compulsory, but it's just a nice thing to do and bar staff really appreciate it, especially if it's a busy shift.
Andrew, you are like a Jesus. An actual Jesus.
Forget Jeremy Clarkson - you and Stephen Fry should be joint prime ministers. You've got my vote that's for sure.
Re iPod etiquette. I mute the volume and take one earphone out, otherwise I'd have to take the iPod out of my pocket and wrap the wire around it only to undo the process a few second later. The ear (usually the left) makes a handy hook for the iPod.
By the way, I'm watching IQ from last night on iPlayer (what is it with this little i followed by a capital P business?! Pah! or shoudl that be iPah!) and Stephen Fry has just mentioned meeting the Mitford sister who married Oswald Mosley (it was only 2 minutes ago but I've forgotten her name already). Anyway, when Stephen Fry met her she said to him, "You never did meet Hitler, did you?" Crikey.
Deb Holt
The world would be a much better place if all major religions were replaced with Stephen Fry. I haven't seen this week's QI yet, but Diana Mitford married Oswald Mosley and became Max's mum. I'm currently reading "The Mitford Girls" by Mary S. Lovell. It's very good!
Juliet x
Ah, Diana, that's it!
Deb Holt
Today, for the first time, I saw a couple leaving stuff outside a closed charity shop (Oxfam in Clifton Village, Bristol.) As if to confirm your suspicions about the type of people who do this kind of thing, they'd parked their car on the zig-zag lines of a pedestrian crossing to unload it, just to underline their anti-social leanings...
I listened to that Stephen Fry podcast. I think he's great, but did think he was getting stressed about nothing with that compliance thing. I prefer him being all fatherly and calm on QI, than getting annoyed about petty things. I like to believe he's about that kind of thing.
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